Another new edition for Dungeons and Dragons

[Dr.Bedlam]

Imagine my surprise when I read the news this morning... and found that D&D has made the New York Times. Wizards of the Coast is developing a Fifth Edition, and asking the gaming community for input on what it should look like.

 

Read it yourself here.

[Lorderl]

Interestinf read, though another edition so soon will just continue to piss D&D players off, myself included even though i haven't spent a single dime on any 4th edition content. minis. books, pdf's, nothing!

 

My impression is that they're really looking for an excuse to be able to sell more books.

 

I'd be interested in seeing what the virtual tabletop comes out to.

[Spike]

I was kind of excited to hear this. I think there were some elements of 4e that made the game better, but in the end they oversimplified the roleplay and character building and overcomplicated the combat, and I got the feeling that player and DM autonomy got thrown out the window almost completely.

 

I hear that the next edition will be more like Descent or Hero Quest. If so, I think that might be a good step back in the right direction...a fun quick game that does not require a huge learning curve nor months of commitment to achieve closure in the adventure.

[Reaperbryan]

My impression is that they're really looking for an excuse to be able to sell more books.

Yes, they're a business, they make and sell books.

 

And I want to sell more minis. Is that EEEEVIL?? Really?

 

The company you work for, they sell {items}. I bet that you would be happy to find out that your company stayed in business because they found a way to sell more {items}.

 

I get it if they want to sell you a product with no value - clearly you felt 4e had no value, and you didn't buy it! Capitalism working! Consumer makes choices! Now, to be profitable, they want to make a book you (and the thousands of other gamers that didn't buy 4e either) will buy. Is that EEEVIL? No. It's Business.

 

Obviously, I can't decide until it's out, but I for one hope they bring me something new. To get my money, I want innovation and tradition blended well. If they can learn from the best elements of 1e, 2e, 3, and 4e (which, despite the many flame wars DID have many good elements IMHO) and bring us the ones that work best together, while simultaneously giving us something new and amazing, I will eagerly give them my cash, so they can make more.

[Spike]

I think the gripe that most people have with any company constantly switching systems is the idea of planned obsolescence and leaving the buyer in the lurch with an unsupported product. I can imagine how Windows NT users must've felt.

 

As for 4e, it seemed to be a complete system, like it or not. It's not like they started up a game system, then began cranking out add-on books that gave certain character or playing styles clear advantage, only to stop halfway through and leave the other half of their loyal consumers saying "What about me?". Nor did they wait for their loyal consumers to rope all their friends into jumping onto their product's bandwagon only to suddenly stop mid-stride and say "Everything you know is wrong" without even so much as fair warning or letting the loyal consumers have some input into what was good and bad about the game they had been playing.

 

The fun part will be seeing how they handle distributors and store owners who are now stuck with old product that will likely see a dramatic drop in sales. At least they were wise enough to rely more heavily on PDF sales so hopefully fewer people will be left holding outdated physical merchandise.

[Dr.Bedlam]

My impression is that they're really looking for an excuse to be able to sell more books.

 

I'd be interested in seeing what the virtual tabletop comes out to.

 

Yeah, well, WOTC has been publishing a hardcover book every two or three months (or at least it seems like it) since 4E came out. My take is that they've been staring eye to eye with Paizo... and they've finally blinked. Down around these parts, Pathfinder outsells 4E, and the high school D&D club still plays 3.5; they don't like 4E.

 

Sure, they want to sell more books. They're a subsidiary of Hasbro, and Hasbro has certain expectations for toys and entertainment products. They sell a hell of a lot of GI Joes, and plainly they expect their other licenses to perform to maximum capability... and I wouldn't want to be the Wizards liason who had to explain to Hasbro why Paizo is successfully competing with them with an open source version of their own product.

 

If they think they can turn it around this way, I don't blame them for trying. I have fond memories of D&D, and I'd hate to see the brand name die the way TSR did.

 

...but one of the reasons I quit playing Warhammer was the fact that they kept changing editions too durn fast. There's a limit to what I'm willing to spend to stay current, and I vote with my wallet.

 

I am not holding my breath for the virtual table top. They've been going on about this for years, and I have yet to see or hear a whole lot about anything that actually exists that excites me.

[wildbill]

Considering that by the time 5th Ed finally hits the bookshelves, it will be at least 4 years from the initial release of 4th Ed (if not 5 years, more realistically). How many years is it between reboots of the Games Workshop mainstays, Warhammer Fantasy and 40K? I don't think it is too much different in time frame. The only difference is that now you know that it is coming and have a unique opportunity to put in your two cents. If you are that passionate about 4th Ed sucking so much, speak up now to WotC or forever remain silent. I for one stopped collecting at 2nd Ed. I still try to buy those books if I can get them cheap enough.

[Inarah]

We play 4e, GM's choice, and I found it relatively simple to learn and play. (sometimes too simple) I never did quite get the hang of 3/3.5/Pathfinder after multiple attempts. (and nobody we know plays it anyway)

 

I'm looking forward to the cost of 4e books dropping even lower so I can pick up a few source books I've been wanting.

 

And I feel Bryan is correct. Hasbro/WotC is is the business of making product. They need new product periodically to stay in business. You don't like, you don't buy. That's capitalism.

[Spike]

While it is true that new product is what keeps a business going, it is always better to at least make your product somewhat backward-compatible and forward-expandable. One would not want to invest in, for instance, a camera from

if their previous lines of cameras and lenses had been discontinued after only four years. If this hypothetical camera manufacturer really wanted to retain loyal customers, they would either make some things like batteries and lenses or adapters that work with older models to keep those people loyal and keep getting their money, or at the very least allow an outside company to develop products for Canikon's discontinued products.

 

I'll give credit to WoTC for doing just that with OGL...but once that is done they have no real prerogative to woof about how Paizo is taking their customers. With 4e now they can decide whether to hand over the license to other companies, continue to support 4e with their own resources, or just make the game vanish into the night. They ought to consider which of those choices will anger the fewest customers. You live, you gamble, you lose, and you learn. Hopefully you learn after only one mistake rather than by losing your company. That's SMART capitalism.

[Loim]

The last edition of AD&D I played was 3e. It was a big change since I dearly loved 2e rules, and know them well. Having said that I hope it works for them, but for me I'm a big fan of Pathfinder.

 

For me, my love of Pathfinder is more because of the world Paizo has created rather than the ruleset itself. Now I just wish I could find a regular group to DM or game with.

[Spike]

I understand how you mean about the various gaming worlds. I for one liked Forgotten Realms, even though I've come to like Oe and 1e gaming over 3e. But then again my favourite game settings have been homebrewed.

[themudhead]

I agree too. They need to make money. But, that said, I do not like when a company trashes a game and replaces it with another rules system for no reason other than make a few bucks. I'm not a bottom less pit of money and I am not going to sit around and play with rules for rules sakes.

 

I don't care about the rules in a role playing game. I'm not playing in the game to read rules. I'm not buying rules after rules after rules... forget it. I'm only interested in new rules that fix "broken" rules.

 

Gone is GW. Gone is D&D. I guess it's why old TSR used to release all those modules. And why they had Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, et al.

 

I'll not play D&D again. I'm off to play Pathfinder and I'm not looking back. Should Paizo scrap Pathfinder, I'll go elsewhere.

[TaleSpinner]

Pathfinder is working pretty darn good. It'll be tough for me to justify a switch back to D&D, unless they back up and return the game to something that even remotely resembles D&D 1, 2, or 3; if not in mechanics, at least in feel so I can convert and support the world and content that I've developed over 30 years of play. I was able to do this with Pathfinder but not D&D 4e. I will be surprised if they can woo me back.

 

Also, Pazio has been a good partner in gaming and feels like TSR did back in the hey day; i.e., they actually seem to care about the game, the players, and the bottom line, not just the bottom line.

 

Andy

[Reaperbryan]

I'll agree, as a gamer, that I think backwards compatibility and forward expandability are important - and a large part of Pathfinder's success. It's a great game in it's own right, that also happens to build off strengths of an ancestor. I would posit that 4e, while it has a lineage of great games, was too (if such a term can be used) "evolutionarily divergent" from it's heritage to be embraced by the audience used to the heritage games. 3e had a compatibility factor - there was a document that converted a 2e character to 3e. No such thing from 3e to 4e.

 

Now, if they can make 5e compatible with 3e AND 4e (Something I'm not even sure is possible!), in such a way as to be a combination of the strengths of both systems while managing to successfully lose the majority of the failings of both, it could be the greatest game ever. Then again, it could be what I'm asking for ans STILL be a colossal waste of trees....

[themudhead]

Now, if they can make 5e compatible with 3e AND 4e (Something I'm not even sure is possible!), in such a way as to be a combination of the strengths of both systems while managing to successfully lose the majority of the failings of both, it could be the greatest game ever. Then again, it could be what I'm asking for ans STILL be a colossal waste of trees....

 

That is one "Tall" order.

 

Too many people have moved on to other games like Pathfinder (which is most excellent, loving it) and others, for D&D to make a comeback. Even if it is compatible, I won't waste the money. I'm even giving Mouseguard a try rather than D&D.