Who owns the rights to a photo of a painted mini?

[Pally]

I've been wondering about this. Let's say you buy a Reaper mini. You paint it your own way and then take a photo of it. Who then legally owns the rights to the image of that painted miniature? The painter? Reaper?

 

When you buy a canvas and paint on it, the painter owns the image, despite the canvas having a manufacturer. Right?

 

When you purchase raw materials (sticks, glue, etc..) and build something from them, you own the rights to any image of that, yes?

 

If I ever get around to making an RPG, it would be neat to be able to use images of reaper minis (that i have painted myself). Although it's my guess that I then would not be allowed to gain any profits from said project. xP

[Inarah]

You have rights on the photo, Reaper has rights on the sculpt.

[Spike]

Also if I'm not mistaken, if you paint a mini and ask somebody else to photograph the mini, that person owns the rights to publish that particular photo....though i can't imagine that person getting hardnosed and not allowing the painter to have use of the same photo.

[Stubbdog]

The heart of your question seems to be, if you make an RPG, could you use photos of Reaper Models in your rulebook. My non-legal personal opinion would be that you would have to get permission from Reaper to do this since you would be trying to make money using images of their figures rather than simply artwork of ambiguous fantasy characters.

 

With that opinion, I am not sure if Reaper would make you sign some for of agreement related to any future minis created for your RPG, pay a royalty for that, require you to put some form of advertisement for Reaper in the captions, or simply give you a full green light saying "its all good".

[Doug Sundseth]

You own the rights to the photo. You might not have the right to use the photo without restriction if the photo is deemed to be a derivative work of Reaper's copyrighted sculpture.

 

It is possible that a painted miniature is a sufficiently transformative use that photos are fair use in any circumstance. Further, since the sculpture is sold with the express purpose of being used by purchasers to create original artwork, it is possible that Reaper has constructively waived a small portion of their control over that sort of copyright.

 

Only a judge and jury can tell you for sure and only a lawyer specializing in copyright cases can give you worthwhile advice. I am not such a lawyer, or indeed any sort of lawyer, so the above is just my lay supposition.

 

If you make an arrangement with Reaper in advance, none of that really matters, though, and it's likely that such an agreement would be both easier and cheaper than even winning a case would be.

[Baphomet69]

Or you could just ask Reaper directly ( or wait for a Reaper rep to answer here...).

[Bruunwald]

Or you could just ask Reaper directly ( or wait for a Reaper rep to answer here...).

I think the former would be best, and the latter doubtful. If Reaper were to make a blanket declaration here, it could open the door to all sorts of unanticipated uses.

[herzogbrian]

If I ever get around to making an RPG, it would be neat to be able to use images of reaper minis (that i have painted myself). Although it's my guess that I then would not be allowed to gain any profits from said project. xP

 

If you take the photo, you own the rights to the photo. If it is of a person, unless they are a 'public figure' which in another can of worms.. they have the right to contest your use of their image unless you have a signed waiver/contract letting you do what you want.

 

The use of a photo of Reaper's minis in a published RPG, should be quite legal if the photographer gives you the right to print. Citing the company that made the figure and the name of the painter (giving them credit) would protect you from most lawsuits. If the picture was of something that might endanger Reaper's 'brand name', they might go to court to have you remove the picture or at least attach a note stating that Reaper has NOTHING to do with NOR endorses your product in any way.

 

Like the model's waiver, an official note from Reaper granting permission to use images of their figures that YOU generate while crediting them with manufacture would make you bulletproof in court (though maybe not bomb-proof).

[Gailbraithe]

You own the rights to the photograph if you took the photo. You could then publish the photo and there is ultimately nothing Reaper could do. Reaper could have their lawyer send you a cease and desist letter and try to scare you into not publishing the photo, and could even take you to (civil) court over it, but they would lose. I don't think Reaper would do that, because I've never got the sense that Reaper is run by a bunch of *****, but GW does stuff like that all the time. They're always bullying other companies that use GW miniatures to show the scale of their terrain products and whatnot. What most people don't know is that GW has never successfully sued anyone over this kind of supposed "copyright infringement." They rely entirely on fear and ignorance of the law (and their lawyers and deep pockets) to force compliance.

 

Here's why they can't win that kind of a case: Ultimately there is no difference between a miniature and any other manufactured product. Legally Reaper's 03599: Drake Whiteraven, Young Mage miniature is no different than Ikea's KARLSTAD Chair -- You can buy one, you can do whatever you want with it, but you cannot replicate it and sell it without violating Reaper/Ikea's copyright.

 

But you can certainly photograph it and publish that photograph. Imagine for a second what would happen if you couldn't do that. It would be impossible to make the vast majority of movies that exist. If a company could legally stop you from publishing images of their products in use, then it would cost billions, maybe even trillions of dollars to make a movie. One shot of a person walking through a house would result in hundreds of lawsuits as every single manufacturer of every single product that happened to be in the shot demanded they be paid for the use of their product.

 

If you run a miniatures painting business and want to post photos of Reaper miniatures you painted to show your skills then Reaper has no legal recourse. If you run a company that makes miniatures terrain and want to put some Reaper miniatures next to your terrain to show scale, you're safe. If you want to post pictures of people playing Warlord with Reaper minis in your gaming store to advertise your in-store gaming you're safe. Because none of these things are in direct competition with Reaper and thus none of them could be claimed to be damaging to Reaper. Likewise, if you wanted to post your own photo of a Reaper mini on your blog so that you can completely trash it and tell everyone its awful and they shouldn't buy it (hah, as if), then they can't stop you (god help you if you just repost Reaper's own catalog images for such a blog though, because Reaper owns the rights to those photos and would rightfully sue you into an early grave).

 

Now there is one major exception to this: You can't publish a set of rules for a miniatures game and use Reaper miniatures that are identified as such in your game photographs without their permission, because Reaper actually publishes their own wargame for use with their miniatures and they could probably successfully argue in court that you are infringing on their copyright. Now that's all kind of a legal gray area, mostly because wargaming is such a small market that there isn't a real interest in legislating on wargaming issues, but I sure wouldn't risk it. Even if you don't identify the miniatures you could be in hot water, but you really, really, really can't publish a wargame that features Reaper's entire line of miniatures with names and stats for them all, because then you're just straight up jacking Reaper's copyrights.

 

/not a lawyer, not to be construed as legal advice

[Pally]

Thanks for all the info. If I do decide to use images of painted reaper minis, I'll be sure to credit them (and most likely ask before doing any kind of publishing).

 

Oh and I meant a PC RPG (using RPG maker). Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Gailbraithe]

You know, I didn't think of this until you said PC RPG, but that could actually be a real problem. Because there is a huge difference between showing photos of a miniature you own in use and using a photo of a miniature as a piece of art to give a visual definition to a monster in a game. In that case the problem you're going to run into is one of derivative artworks. Talien (am I spelling that right?) is the guy (or gal? I don't know) who seems to do most if not all of Reaper's character designs, and Reaper is paying him or her for the right to make miniatures based on that artwork. If you then take photos of the miniatures and use them to illustrate a game, that could be a violation of Talien's rights (or Reapers, depending on their contract with Talien).

 

I just found the site for the RPG Maker program and looking at it, I would say that if you're making an CRPG for personal use or to distribute as a fan work, you're probably safe. If you're making it for commercial release, then that would probably be a bad idea and could get you legitmately sued.

[Reaperbryan]

To keep things simple, it's best if in any product you plan to sell, you ask permission from the manufacturer of anything in photographs that could be identified as another company's IP.

 

It's fairly common for us to get these types of requests, and it shows a level of professionalism that you were considerate enough to ask before using.

 

If you want to talk in more detail about this, I offer you Ed Pugh, [email protected]