Arachne Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 As the subject states, I have a problem with losing paint on eyebrows, hair, cloak edges, swords, whatever, before the mini is done. Is dull-cote the answer? I use Testor's Dullcote to finish my non-tabletop pieces, do you think I could spray them with that, and later continue to paint over it? I lost some skin off my half orc priest, recently, and it really burned my butt. It took me forever to get just the right highlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artists Wren Posted March 3, 2012 Artists Share Posted March 3, 2012 Are you using primer? I suspect you are, but that's pretty key, so it's worth asking since your post doesn't say. Also, while some people say it isn't necessary, another thing you can try is washing the metal figure with a toothbrush and dish soap and then letting it dry before you prime it. The moulds the minis are cast with are dusted with powder to help them release from the mould, and while you're filing off mould lines or converting a figure you are getting your skin oils on it. Both could make the primer not adhere completely. Which brand of paint are you using? I'm told Vallejo model paints are a bit more delicate and subject to rubbing off while painting. Do you mount your mini on a holder while you paint? This helps you minimize how much you handle the mini. While paint is surface dry in seconds, it can take a few hours or a day or two to really set, so minimizing how much you touch the figure while painting can help a lot with this. You can use a pill bottle, bottle cap, wooden spool, dice box, all kinds of things. Paint from the inside outwards when possible. Sharp edged items and parts that are on the outer edges like hair get handled more while you're painting, so are more likely to rub off. So if you do those parts last, you can touch up rubbed off primer with a brush on primer and then paint them up trying to touch them as little as possible. People have used dullcote to set an area of paint and then paint over it it some more, particularly for tricky stuff like freehand designs, so that could be something to try. For me, it didn't work ideally if I didn't have all the areas of the mini at least base coated. (What I mean is, if I dullcoted and there was some bare primer, the paint didn't seem to stick as well when I painted over the primer/dullcote sections.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachne Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 I use Reaper paints, I prime and wash with dish soap and an old toothbrush. I tack the bases down to squares of cardboard, but I'm going to start using a pill bottle so I can turn them better, I suspect that's one issue. Also, because I lost the arm of one of my cherished paladins mid-paint...I'll be using their pill bottles to store body parts >.> That's a great idea, about painting outwards, I think I learned that, but I get carried away and just go with whatever. I'll try to get more disciplined about it. I'm thinking the dullcote might be a last ditch effort. I wonder if I'm overpriming, too. I've been using brush on primers, black or white, and normally I do two coats. I really appreciate the fast reply, and all the information! I paint a lot, I'm not new to it, just a long time lurker, I've learned most everything I know about painting from these boards, thank you so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutebutpsycho Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Dullcoat certainly isn't going to hurt your mini. I know SOME people are a little more...I don't know if it's acidic or they just secrete oils....than others thus making even the gentlest of brushings of your miniature strip off paint. This may be your problem. If so, the dullcoat should protect it between painting sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySloth Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I have to put on about 5-6 coats of reapers brush on primer to keep it from rubbing off, granted I do water ti down some, but this just happen. I've learned to hold the mini better as I'm panting it but unless i put a thick coat of spray primer on (and I mean thick) then there are always areas where the paint and primer rub off on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachne Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for the insight. Maybe I'm underpriming. I knock primer off, all the time. I'm going to paint this batch of skeletons I've been neglecting trying new stuff, including more primer, dullcote, and the stuff Wren mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishil Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Odd. I only use one coat of primer, and that's enough. It seems very strange that you would have to use so many layers to make paint stick. Ishil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artists Wren Posted March 4, 2012 Artists Share Posted March 4, 2012 Two coats of slightly thinned brush-on primer should do the trick. It is a product that you need to shake a fair bit more than paint to make sure all the ingredients are mixed. If you haven't done that you might find the first bit of the bottle a bit watery and less effective, and the latter bit too thick. I like to store mine on its side, seems to make it easier to mix. I do think that brush-on primer is not quite as sturdy as spray primer. Probably due to chemical make-up or some such, since it's also more toxic than brush-on. Brush-on is very handy for those of us in humid places, or to touch up little rubbed off places or chips, but I guess slightly reduced strength is the price. I think all types of primer get a little stronger if you give them a day or three to cure before handling the mini. Sounds like using a holder will help with a couple of problems. That's a good idea to keep extra parts in a pill bottle holder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Lead Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I do think that brush-on primer is not quite as sturdy as spray primer. Probably due to chemical make-up or some such, since it's also more toxic than brush-on. Brush-on is very handy for those of us in humid places, or to touch up little rubbed off places or chips, but I guess slightly reduced strength is the price. I think all types of primer get a little stronger if you give them a day or three to cure before handling the mini. Spray-primers usually have some kind of etching agent and are made of stronger paints, like enamel. Most brush-ons have to be acrylic-based, to avoid toxicity. Sort of like thinning down gesso and priming with it. Hence, not quite as sturdy as a spray enamel or lacquer-based primer. Your idea of letting the primer cure is a good one - one thing I always do after spray primering is dry the mini for a minute with a hot hairdryer. Speeds up the "setting" time and cooks off a lot of the volatiles from the spray itself. Of course it helps to have a garage to do this in - no paint fumes evaporating in the house! But I do find it makes the primer a little harder. Back to the original issue, though - besides a handle (which is a must IMHO), there's a few other things that can be done to limit paint rubbing off. One thing is to acid-etch the mini. I pop it in a baby-food jar of household vinegar for 1 minute or so. The mini comes out looking slightly dull. I wash it to totally neutralize the acid. The mini gets a micro-etch over the surface that promotes adherence of primer and can cut down on rubbed off paint. Another idea is to use a glass-medium as brush-on primer. The standard used to be Folk-Art Glass and Tile Medium. It's a medium meant to let crafters paint acrylics on glass. As such it sticks really well and resists rubbing off. The down-side is it's clear, but you can use it as a base primer under the white paint-on, or mix a little white paint with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaGeek Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think the problem is most likely handling. This used to happen to me a lot when I first started painting, too. If you can tack your mini down onto something that you hold while you are working, and NEVER EVER EVER touch the figure with anything but a brush until it is done, that will probably solve your problem. I usually sticky tack mine onto a pill bottle, or hold the base, if it's big enough. Others use a wine bottle cork, or a block of wood. Whatever you have that you can easily grip will work. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachne Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hmm. I've never even heard of the vinegar trick. Learn new stuff every day. Lots of new things to try, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySloth Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 @ishi and Wren I do mostly glazing for my painting so I never really place down much paint in the first place thus the high amounts of primer needed. I learned this the hard way when I switched from spray primer and using a wet pallet as I had many of moments that Arachne described in his original posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artists Wren Posted March 10, 2012 Artists Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ah, so you're essentially tinting the primer with glazes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySloth Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Depending on what I'm painting yes, but I generally put down thin basecoats because I really don't have the patence to tint the primer like some people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungerfan Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Going to necro this thread because I have a question about what to do with this same issue. Painting the metal dire bear and I noticed under his belly and his feet were showing metal. I primed it but my guess is I did not do enough in those spots or maybe didn't scrub it well enough with the toothbrush when cleaning. What is the best way to touch up these area now that I am nearly done with painting the guy? Do I need to redo the basecoat and go through my shading and highlighting again in that area? I was worried about doing that since I may not get it exactly the same as the rest and it would show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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