Humansquish Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So I have a big model in base contact with models in Kristianna's troop. Using Crusader Faction abilities, Kristianna summons the Doom Kitty into base contact with my big model. Doom Kitty then uses is action to attack said big model. My big model takes it's defensive strikes. Kristianna's troop then takes their attacks on my big model. Does my big model then get defensive strikes again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outek Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yes, as the Guardian Beast is not part of Kristianna's troop. This is because it acts out of normal sequence when summoned. You did not mention it, but just in case anyone is wondering, your first set of defensive strikes could have targeted the models from Kristianna's troop that were in BtB with your big model instead of the 'Doom Kitty." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuaslater Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 This is good, as we still get confused about defensive strikes. An easier way to phrase it would be, "a model gets to swing any time it's attacked, against any model it's in contact with but Special Abilities still apply." I hope I'm correct, or it's another rule we're botching!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbdog Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Editting post and removing answer as it was incorrect.... even us experts are human and read things wrong every now and then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuaslater Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Bear with me, please. Let's say Player A's Reven troop activates. They get two Bull Orcs into combat with a Dwarf. The two Bull Orcs get their attacks, and the Dwarf divides his defensive strikes against each Bull Orc. Next initiative card is drawn. Reven! Two Bugbears (from another troop) now manage to pile onto the same Dwarf. They take their swings at the Dwarf. Does the Dwarf get his/her defensive strikes again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakandara Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The situation is Player B has a model in btb with some crusaders but it is Player A's activation. Player A summons doom kitty into btb with Player B's model. At this point the current activation goes into a momentary pause as the summoned model(s) get a free separate mini activation inserted right here. It uses its mini activation with 1 action to do combat. This would provoke defensive strikes from Player B's model which could be used against the doom kitty or against any other models in btb. Now, that the "mini activation" is over the regular activation that was already in progress comes back out of pause so to speak. At this point in the original activation, no melee combat has happened yet, and therefore no defensive strikes have been provoked yet. So, indeed Player B would get defensive strikes if attacked in melee this activation. This is incorrect. Summoning does not permit you to violate the basic rule of "all combat actions of the same type must happen at the same time". In this specific situation, we are talking about a Solo, so it does not join the activated troop. This does not mean, however, that its attacks are separate from the rest of the current activation. If you look at the Summon SA, it says: "After models with the Summoned (X) SA have been placed, they may each take one Action of any type." It does not say this is a free action, or that they immediately take this action, but rather that they *may* take one Action of any type, after they have been placed. There is no "mini activation". Non-solos would join the troop and activate again with the troop next turn. Solos have their initiative card added to the deck for next turn, and activate on their own from that point forward. Josh: Yes, defensive strikes reset each activation. So assuming that dwarf survived the initial assault, not only would he get defensive strikes on the next Reven activation, he could even choose to use them against the bull orcs, as any target that is in B2B with the dwarf is valid for defensive strikes, not just the freshly attacking Bugbears. ~v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuaslater Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Josh: Yes, defensive strikes reset each activation. So assuming that dwarf survived the initial assault, not only would he get defensive strikes on the next Reven activation, he could even choose to use them against the bull orcs, as any target that is in B2B with the dwarf is valid for defensive strikes, not just the freshly attacking Bugbears. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbdog Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Well, what can I say... Even us experts can read something the wrong way sometimes... Good pick up Vince. I am editing my last post to not confuse anyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuaslater Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'd like to express my thanks to the team for the help. Warlord is an elegantly simple mechanic, and can actually be confusing when picking up after many game engines have revved through a new player's brain previously. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cristomeyers Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I've got a follow-up in the vein of Defensive Strikes. Picture if you will: Mossbeard charges, ends up in Base-to-Base with General Matisse, an Overlord Warrior, and an Overlord Spearman. The treeman levels all of his attacks against Matisse (I mean, who wouldn't). Do the Warrior and Spearman also get Defensive Strikes against the Treeman? My gut says no, but neither LadyMeyers or myself could find anything in the rules saying one or the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakandara Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) No; if you are not attacked, you do not get Defensive Strikes. Check out the steps for resolving the Fight action in your rulebook; they are very specific in order and function. EDIT: I can make a case for leveling the warrior and the spearman first. Mossy cannot kill Matisse outright (5 DTs vs. 2 Might attacks), so Matisse will survive to another action. Mossy's DR will likely shrug off the attacks of the warrior and the spear, meaning you could probably attack and kill both while suffering no damage. Even if Matisse goes before Mossy's next activation, at least you have removed Support. Matisse can still Focus if you base all 3, so the MAV is a wash, but at least you are taking 3 less swings (which, when coupled with Matisse's attacks, could end Mossy). You have a good chance to survive Matisse's attacks on his next action, and should wound him heavily in return. ~v Edited May 4, 2012 by Shakandara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cristomeyers Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Well, we got that one right, at least. First Strike, not so much... My thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSmash Smash Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 As long as we're on the topic. Let's say that a Dwarf Warrior is currently in B2B with a Crusader Justicar. They resolve their attacks and defensive strikes with both of them surviving. A Crusader Templar Knight, from a different troop, charges into B2B with the dwarf and attacks. The Dwarf Warrior survives and wants to do his defensive strikes on the Justicar since defensive strikes can be allocated to any enemy model that is in B2B contact. Will the Justicar be able to perform Defensive strikes back on the Dwarf Warrior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffyBaby Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 No, the Justicar does not get to make defensive strikes against the Dwarf Warrior. Defensive strikes do not trigger Defensive Strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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