mkh Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 This really isnt a topic of how thin of paint you use, I am curious about something though. If you really take your paints to the an extremely thin mix, could you not use maybe one or two color transitions? I have been experimenting with this and have had pretty good results with it. I have even gone to the extremes with it in using my pure highlight color in an extremely thin mix and taken it all the way up from my shade color to pure highlight without a noticable line of transition. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel, but am curious if any of you out there utilize a similar technique? While I am at it, I am kinda confused about something. Several people rave about Vallejo paints in their having an extremely dense pigment making them very opaque. That is great for base coats and such, but when trying to make seamless layers, isn't this a hinderance? I am not knocking the paints as I own pretty much all of that line, but when it comes to applying my highlights I tend to use my Citadels, Reaper Pros and Ral Partha's instead. These are more translucent than the Vallejo's which gives me the color transistions I am looking for. What are your thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flit Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I use Vallejo paints (along with some others too). I do highlighs with them just fine. Just thin the paint way down. I do this especially with flesh colors. I thin the paint down as far as I can control it. This makes the paint translucent, and the color of paint underneith shows through somewhat. Then I start layering lighter shades on top of my shaded base coat. It takes awhile, but the transitions are seamless. I have some minis in progress that I used this technique on and am pretty happy with the way the faces came out. Hope that helps some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mengu Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 This really isnt a topic of how thin of paint you use, I am curious about something though. If you really take your paints to the an extremely thin mix, could you not use maybe one or two color transitions? I have been experimenting with this and have had pretty good results with it. I have even gone to the extremes with it in using my pure highlight color in an extremely thin mix and taken it all the way up from my shade color to pure highlight without a noticable line of transition. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel, but am curious if any of you out there utilize a similar technique? I have tried it. I find that this doesn't give me the control over how I want the transition. The end result is somewhat of a washed out color, almost feels like monochrome. Using the actual color you want for the blends gives a much more vibrant color. The reason for the washed out result is because your shadow color probably has some black in it, and your highlight color probably has some white. This produces a tone for the transition (color + grey) instead of the actual pure color. While sometimes this may be the desired result, I still prefer to use the tone if that's what I intend to do, instead of the super thin highlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizard Hlavaz Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 While I am at it, I am kinda confused about something. Several people rave about Vallejo paints in their having an extremely dense pigment making them very opaque. That is great for base coats and such, but when trying to make seamless layers, isn't this a hinderance? Not in the least. Properly thinned, Vallejo paint or any other excellently pigmented paint like our dear Reaper Pro will provide you with super-smooth transitions that are neither dull nor overly-feathered out. That is to say, a super-pigmented paint will enable you to transition smoothly between 3 or 4 colors within the width of say....a sword blade (what's that? an 1/8th of an inch?)... rather than requiring a quarter or even 3/8 of an inch to blend (this sometimes being required of lesser pigmented paints in order to achieve sufficient "pop" in terms of color density and variance). The key is learning how much to thin and how to apply the thinned paint. Once a painter breaks away from the "out-of-the-bottle" mentality and begins to experiment with thinning, he or she will open a slew of new doors for him- or herself. Of course, wet-blending is an essential skill to learn at this point as well. If you don't already wet-blend, learn to ASAP. Combined with layering, wet-blending can provide some of the smoothest transitions you've ever seen. Ah, that was a lot of blathering on my part. The short answer is "no, not a hinderance, a boon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintrix Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 This really isnt a topic of how thin of paint you use, I am curious about something though. If you really take your paints to the an extremely thin mix, could you not use maybe one or two color transitions? In my experience, it depends on the color used and its basecoat. I've had more success with cool colors and those that are highlighted with pure white, less success with warms and when the transition involves different hues. If you like the results it gives you, then it's obviously a good technique! Seamlessness with any of the mock-blending techniques (that is, anything but true wet blends) depends on a whole lotta factors, and it can be produced in many ways. How you like to paint will partly determine the qualities of the paint you use, and as you gravitate towards paint with certain characteristics, you will in turn refine and adapt your technique to get the most of that type of paint. The opacity of Vallejo and Reaper, I've found, give me more versatility in one bottle than does Citadel and like paints. (I think Reaper is much more similar to V. in its properties than C.) It's just simpler for me to mix up a translucent glaze of Vallejo when I need it than it is to put on six coats of Blood Red to get an even basecoat. That glaze will also take fewer layers to get the same intensity. Again, this is going to depend, to a very great extent, on one's individual working style. Ten different painters will have ten different variations on the same technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkh Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 Thanksf or the posts ladies and gentlemen. As I stated, I too am a Vallejo, Citadel, Reaper, Ral Partha, oh heck if its paint I probably own it. I am just curious if the reasoning makes sense. Jen I agree it seems that cool colors are more forgiving of jumps in the hue of the paints than warms are. I am utilizing this right now for blues, and it seems to work quite well. Heck, yellows seem to be the most forgiving of all it seems for me. I am going to print out this topic as Whiz and Megu have given me ideas and I would like this article in front of me tonight when I pick up the brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells_Clown Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Not meanig to hijack the thread but when people talk about "thin paint" what do they mean by "thin"? People keep saying to get good results one needs to thin their paint (esp Vallejo) waaaaaaaaaaaaay down. How much? 1 drop paint to a gallon of water? That's purty thin! Usually I do 1:1 paint to water and sometimes (depending on the color) even that is too much. It gets runny and is nearly ink like. This is using plain water, no future or anything. It also doesn't cover in one coat meaning I have to wait a while to paint a second, even third coat. That and the color seperates, requiring constant stirring. So, what's the secret here folks? How to keep the paint from pooling, keep it under control, etc...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enchantra Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Not meanig to hijack the thread but when people talk about "thin paint" what do they mean by "thin"? People keep saying to get good results one needs to thin their paint (esp Vallejo) waaaaaaaaaaaaay down. How much? 1 drop paint to a gallon of water? That's purty thin! Usually I do 1:1 paint to water and sometimes (depending on the color) even that is too much. It gets runny and is nearly ink like. This is using plain water, no future or anything. It also doesn't cover in one coat meaning I have to wait a while to paint a second, even third coat. That and the color seperates, requiring constant stirring. So, what's the secret here folks? How to keep the paint from pooling, keep it under control, etc...? I thin my paint with extender and flow aid. I use water only if I want it incredibly thin and watery. And usually I do a ratio where there is more paint than extender or flow aid. Usually something like 4:1:1 for regular painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flit Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 For me it depends on the paint and what I am using it for. There is no set rule. I just thin until it "looks right". Sometimes I start painting and then add more water or more paint untill I get the "right" consistancy. Vallejo paints usually get more water, extender, etc than Reapers. I use less water in a base coat than in a highlight layer. Usually I will add 1 to 4 drops of water, etc. to 1 drop of paint. Sometimes more if I want a transparent layer from a Vallejo paint. When thinning ink I use alot more water. Sometimes as much as 5 to 10 drops of water to 1 drop of ink. All of the paints I use are "mini" paints. I don't know how much water to add for the "craft" type paints. I do use a pretty thin paint for most things though. I hope that helps some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Devalis Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 As for thinning, since I have discovered it, I have left teh Future Floor Wax alone (mostly) and I just add a drop of Anne's Magic wash to everything. And before you ask, eight parts folk art extender, one part Windsor and Newton Flow Aid, one part water; I mix it by the keg, and use a medicine dropper to get the portions correct. Michael's and Crafts and Stuff did not have the W&N Flow Aid, but Pearls did ( a wonderful place that gets me into almost as much toruble as my FLGS ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claymoore Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 People keep saying to get good results one needs to thin their paint (esp Vallejo) waaaaaaaaaaaaay down. How much? 1 drop paint to a gallon of water? That's purty thin! Usually I do 1:1 paint to water and sometimes (depending on the color) even that is too much. It gets runny and is nearly ink like. So, what's the secret here folks? How to keep the paint from pooling, keep it under control, etc...? To control the paint you have to unload some of it from the brush before applying brush to figure. I gently touch my brush to the edge of my painting cloth/paper towel to wick away the excess. There will still be plenty of paint on the brush but you will be able to use it in a controlled fashion. Some dilutions I use are 1:1 for basecoats 1:2 thin coats, details. outlining 1:5+ for shading and highlighting There is a very good article at the Vallejo website by Mario Fuentes about the use of acrylics for mini painting. I'm sorry I could not get the exact link but go to Model Color-technigues and you should find it. http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/ Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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