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TheAuldGrump

Pathfinder Minis That We'd Like To See

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I suspect bones are going to be something of a game-changer for Reaper, insofar as their current dynamic of Humanoid vs. Monster sales go. At least as far as the Bones figures go, I think they're going to see increased sales in monsters, while most people buying character pieces are going to stick with metal. Simple reason: Metal paints slightly better, but Bones are much cheaper. If I want a piece to represent my character, it's worthwhile for me to pay an extra four, five bucks for metal. On the other hand, if I want to set a band of goblins on my players, or a larger monster that's only going to be used a few times, I'm going to stick with Bones.

 

But that's just speculation. I will say I think they've done a good job on their initial mini selection, with a large sample of both monsters and humanoids to help test the waters and guide future production runs.

We will be watching sales patterns very closely after the KS minis release. What I expect is to see certain kinds of monsters suddenly outsell PCs (Kobolds and Goblins, for instance, even in metal tend to make it into the top 10% in almost every time/sale study). Other kinds will underperform compared to PCs (for example, I expect the Vampire models to sell less than some of the better PC models. They're good models, but Vampires are niche monsters).

 

In our current LE and Bones patterns, we have a clear trend of Top Tier monsters outperforming models I consider to be characters, and then a clear lower tier of monsters. The lower tier is all easily categorized as niche monsters, like our Bathalian, the Vampire, or the Great Worm. All useful, but not useful tot every GM for every game.

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Simple reason: Metal paints slightly better, but Bones are much cheaper.

 

Bones do cost less, but I haven't noticed any different between painting either medium.

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Simple reason: Metal paints slightly better, but Bones are much cheaper.

 

Bones do cost less, but I haven't noticed any different between painting either medium.

 

I've only done 1 Bones mini thus far, but paint seemed to rub off a lot easier than on metal minis. The Quickstain also seemed to take longer to dry.

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Knight, I haven't seen that difference. Are you using a layer of unthinned paint for your basecoat, or using a primer? I've actually seen Bones holding up pretty well as far as paint rubbing away, compared with metal. If you're thinning your paint, or using a primer, that could cause some issues (insofar as some primers seem to have odd reactions to the Bones plastic).

 

The main issue I've seen is that details aren't quite as crisp on Bones. Buglips did a side-by-size comparison when he painted his ogres for the community WIP. Others have shared similar results. Not all detail, but things like armor and chainmail seem to suffer especially.

 

Don't get me wrong, it still looks pretty decent. You're not getting a bad figure with Bones. You just get slightly better detail on the metal figure. If I want something for display, or to represent my character, I'm likely to go with metal. On the other hand, if I need a lot of something, or I just need something table-top ready, I'm going with Bones.

 

To sum up, Bones figures are definitely good, and they certainly fill a purpose. But I think metal is still better for some purposes.

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Knight, I haven't seen that difference. Are you using a layer of unthinned paint for your basecoat, or using a primer? I've actually seen Bones holding up pretty well as far as paint rubbing away, compared with metal. If you're thinning your paint, or using a primer, that could cause some issues (insofar as some primers seem to have odd reactions to the Bones plastic).

 

The main issue I've seen is that details aren't quite as crisp on Bones. Buglips did a side-by-size comparison when he painted his ogres for the community WIP. Others have shared similar results. Not all detail, but things like armor and chainmail seem to suffer especially.

 

Don't get me wrong, it still looks pretty decent. You're not getting a bad figure with Bones. You just get slightly better detail on the metal figure. If I want something for display, or to represent my character, I'm likely to go with metal. On the other hand, if I need a lot of something, or I just need something table-top ready, I'm going with Bones.

 

To sum up, Bones figures are definitely good, and they certainly fill a purpose. But I think metal is still better for some purposes.

 

Hey Jack,

 

Like I said, I've only done the one thus far, so I'm not claiming my experience is all encompassing. Started out with paint alone, didn't like it, went to gesso as a primer. The gesso might have been the culprit, or the Bones plastic, or lingering Simple Green from the stripping. Just calling it as I experienced it.

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The main issue I've seen is that details aren't quite as crisp on Bones. Buglips did a side-by-size comparison when he painted his ogres for the community WIP. Others have shared similar results. Not all detail, but things like armor and chainmail seem to suffer especially.

 

Don't get me wrong, it still looks pretty decent. You're not getting a bad figure with Bones. You just get slightly better detail on the metal figure. If I want something for display, or to represent my character, I'm likely to go with metal. On the other hand, if I need a lot of something, or I just need something table-top ready, I'm going with Bones.

 

I'm not entirely sure of the reason for this, but I think it may be because the plastic molding process takes one more step than the metal molding process. That is -- if I have this correctly -- a mold is made from the green, or initial sculpt, which is used to cast metal figures. For metal minis this is the entire process. But plastic figures require a different kind of mold which is made from the metal figures, the green material being unsuitable for this process. So plastic figures are one extra generation removed from the original, and thus have lost just a bit of the crispness of detail.

 

I have the Bones ogre, and it looks quite good. The detail level is good. Only when next to metal minis and closely scrutinized does it look just a touch blurred.

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hey knight make sure you wash the bones. they sometimes have the release stuff on it. thats the only time ive seen the paint rub off was from the mini thats not been washed.

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hey knight make sure you wash the bones. they sometimes have the release stuff on it. thats the only time ive seen the paint rub off was from the mini thats not been washed.

 

Hey Ex, I did. :-) This guy actually got washed twice, once when he came out of his cave/package and once to get the Simple Green off when he got stripped.

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Hey Ex, I did. :-) This guy actually got washed twice, once when he came out of his cave/package and once to get the Simple Green off when he got stripped.

 

Why are you using Simple Green on an unpainted mini? Did you strip a Legendary Encounters prepainted mini? Either way, Simple Green is not that great on PVC. It'll get the paint off, but sometimes wears out the detail. I usually just paint over the mini, unless the previous paint job had layered the paint on too thick.

 

Halber

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Hey Ex, I did. :-) This guy actually got washed twice, once when he came out of his cave/package and once to get the Simple Green off when he got stripped.

 

Why are you using Simple Green on an unpainted mini? Did you strip a Legendary Encounters prepainted mini? Either way, Simple Green is not that great on PVC. It'll get the paint off, but sometimes wears out the detail. I usually just paint over the mini, unless the previous paint job had layered the paint on too thick.

 

Halber

 

I gave him a bad paint job, stripped it, tried again.

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I play pathfinder now and love it, along with buying a crap ton of books, i had picked up the beginners box... didnt really dive into it before i started playing with the fellas but i found a great use for it... yesterday i ran my 6 year old through the Black Fang quest with a couple NPCs... he dug it. I had to sort of help him figure out his character sheet and stuff but other than that he had fun... but the first thing he said when the first encounter occurred... "these would be better if they were like the ones you painted"

 

If i was Paizo™ I would get together with reaper and make a special edition beginners box with some nice minis instead of those paper ones...

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If i was Paizo™ I would get together with reaper and make a special edition beginners box with some nice minis instead of those paper ones...

 

Paizo already has a prepainted plastic beginners box. It's made by Wizkids, who have the mass produced prepainted plastic license for Pathfinder minis. A lot of the pathfinder iconics will be available in bones next March. I have the wizkids ones, they're quite nice, but I'm still looking forward to getting the bones versions in March.

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I'm not entirely sure of the reason for this, but I think it may be because the plastic molding process takes one more step than the metal molding process. That is -- if I have this correctly -- a mold is made from the green, or initial sculpt, which is used to cast metal figures. For metal minis this is the entire process. But plastic figures require a different kind of mold which is made from the metal figures, the green material being unsuitable for this process. So plastic figures are one extra generation removed from the original, and thus have lost just a bit of the crispness of detail.

 

For metal minis, the green is used to make a master mold. The master mold is used to make master figures. The master figures are used to make production molds. The production molds are used to produce the figures you get in the store.

 

It's my understanding that for plastic minis, the master figures are 3D scanned to create a computer model, which is used to cut the production molds out of metal (unknown to me what type of metal).

 

I think the difference is not so much a difference in the quality of the molds as a difference in the after-molding behavior of the metal or plastic. Perhaps I'm wrong on that, though.

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Derro....

 

Pathfinder does a lot more with derro than WotC did. Not as main line villains in the Adventure Paths, but as something that is always there, even in urban adventures.

 

Pathfinder derro are small, weedy folks, with wild hair and uncombed beards. Right now there are only five or six minis that will work - with the 'Dark Dwarf Warrior' sitting on the fence (oddly enough, most of them, and the ones that best fit the bill are actually labeled 'Derro'... go figure). ::P:

 

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Clyde stood out from his fellow Derro by knowing how to use a comb, and always eating his vegetables.

 

Hopefully the Derro that are already scuttling about will some day be released as Bones.

 

The Auld Grump

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Oooh, oooh, I sculpted the derro for Reaper! ::D: (And Jason Wiebe sculpted the nice duergar and other "dark dwarves".)

They were among my first full sculpts, almost 8 years ago, but I'm still really proud of them. They just didn't sell well, since they don't have broad appeal.

 

The Pathfinder derro are thinner and ganglier than the burly D&D (and Reaper) derro, but here's hoping some Pathfinder GMs/players decide to buy some of the Reaper derro.

 

A digression... I really liked the "degenerate Einstein" look that artist Jim Holloway gave the derro in AD&D 1st edition, along with the unusual weaponry -- the repeating crossbow, the aklys, the hook-fauchard, etc. (see module S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth). Someone later wrote an article in Dragon magazine that gave derro a Greyhawk-specific backstory: a slave race bred from humans and dwarves by the wicked Suloise Empire. When I was a novice sculptor, I recognized that no one had sculpted any derro for Dark Heaven, so I designed and sculpted the batch of 5 for Reaper. I didn't get around the sculpting the bard or the derro warrior wearing a hollowed umber hulk claw as a helmet.

 

Anyway, I'm working my way through sculpting NPCs from back issues of the Adventure Paths.

Keep the suggestions going!

 

Derek

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