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Evil Empire has Evil Customer Service - Surprised?


Bruunwald
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It's worth remembering that for wargames a named personality or units which have a maximum number that can be fielded are likely to sell less than the standard troops so part of the higher cost may be to account for lower projected sales. Someone might buy Ork infantry en masse but they are very unlikely to buy more than one Ghazgkull Thraka for example.

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It's worth remembering that for wargames a named personality or units which have a maximum number that can be fielded are likely to sell less than the standard troops so part of the higher cost may be to account for lower projected sales. Someone might buy Ork infantry en masse but they are very unlikely to buy more than one Ghazgkull Thraka for example.

 

That's exactly what part of their pricing strategy is. What I object to now is that the price for a main character is far in excess of even boutique miniature prices and that overall their pricing has increased to the point where even a box of basic troopers, in plastic and using molds that were paid for years ago are approaching $10 - $15 each apiece and you can almost double that for squads that are Finecast.

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I own GW stuff, there's nothing wrong with it. Despite all the grief people give them they're quite important to this hobby as they make up the vast majority of the industry and if they disappeared tomorrow I doubt miniature gaming, hobby stores, or painting in general would recover more many years as there's nothing that could really fill the void.

Not true. Many former GW fans are moving to Privateer, Corvus Belli, Battlefront, and Fantasy Flight. Not to mention the crowd of crowd funded products we've seen in the last year. Furthermore just because a company goes tets up doesn't invalidate the material on the market. People can play any edition of GW games they choose the ink a paper (and the digitized illegal versions) will continue to live on.

 

I've paid $30 for one human in resin. There are lots of companies that price what GW does and in fact GW just upped their prices to match, just look at the McVey resin prices (about $35) or Kingdom Death. If you don't like expensive minis, you don't like expensive minis--that's understandable, but what I don't get is why people don't care when other companies charge that amount but as soon as GW does it there's nothing but froth and furor over it. There's a huge double standard over it as I know people that have no problem buying an expensive mini from a non-GW company and then do nothing but complain about GW prices and how "no mini should cost that much".

 

The problem isn't the price per figure. The problem is that the figures, by and large, are for a game that requires a lot of these figures. The gripes are about price because they encourage spamming expensive models and the reasonably priced models are next to worthless in the game. Their entire business model revolves around their game because if you were buying a model from GW because of how it looked they wouldn't be selling a lot of the good profit margin expensive models.

 

I actually think that most of us will acknowledge that, for the most part, GW has always had excellent service. Its their other policies that have become very difficult to deal with. And the customer service as Finecast started to hit the shelves was awful, there were so many incidents of miscasts miniatures at the beginning. I'm not sure what its like now.

 

Fine cash has gotten better. It was rushed to market which was caused the problem with the miscasts. They are using a resin that can be used with the traditional metal spin cast molds and inexperience plus not remastering the molds for the new material caused the problem.

 

GW runs (in their sponsored tournaments, anyway) a walled garden with monopolistic pricing, and sets pricing to significantly advantage people with more money.

 

Good news! GW doesn't sponsor tournaments anymore. Tourneys at the LGS are completely run at the store level now. The advantage to people with more money is completely due to how the game really works. Why have 1 good thing when 3 is better and 6 is superior? It's not tournaments but the actual meta of the game that is ruining the game. Now I have heard that GW considers themselves the Rolls Royce of gaming which will hurt them because the vast majority of their players don't have Rolls Royce budgets.

 

In general they're going away about as fast as D&D will go away -- sometime around the 5th of Never-uary. Yup they're expensive and the only people who care are people who are looking for a reason to care. I'll admit I'm irritated at their prices because they have a decent game, and I'm priced out of the new hotness but whatever. It is what it is. The higher prices have me playing Infinity, Dust, and X-Wing. So you can say GW is doing this to themselves.

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I actually discovered that I like the Lizardmen from GW, but I can't seem to find them in less than units for the non-heroes, and I'm not a player, I just want a few minis to paint.

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Thinking about my own experience with GW customer service and others, I do think some leeway can be given to GW. This is a company that will send out an entire new package of any item if the smallest piece was missing. While there is no excuse for piss poor service, I can understand a bit of pushing and inquiry on there part before giving out a model that could cost $75+ on blind faith. My own experience netted an entire Kroq-Gor on Carnosaur in metal which back then was at least 50 bucks.

 

Please note that I'm trying to start any unpleasantness....

 

This used to be the way that they did things, but not anymore. Now you are much more likely to just got the missing/damaged/whatever sprue that you need to build the kit the way it's supposed to be. From the wailing and gnashing of teeth I've seen on some other forums, I gather that they're being very unfriendly in doing even that.

 

Before I stopped buying stuff from them, I noticed this trend. I had purchased a Defiler kit. When I got home, I discoverd that my kit was missing a leg sprue. I gave them a call, and they sent me out the missing sprue with no hassle, which was fine with me, what was I going to do with 1 and a third kits? I'd still have the same problem--missing legs. The only other time I had a dealing with them (way before the missing sprue incident), they sent me the wrong item. When I called them, I offered to send them the UNOPENED kit back, and they just told me to keep it.

 

I'm guessing that they probably realized that there were folks out there that were taking advantage of them to get free stuff, so they changed their policy.

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I own GW stuff, there's nothing wrong with it. Despite all the grief people give them they're quite important to this hobby as they make up the vast majority of the industry and if they disappeared tomorrow I doubt miniature gaming, hobby stores, or painting in general would recover more many years as there's nothing that could really fill the void.

Not true. Many former GW fans are moving to Privateer, Corvus Belli, Battlefront, and Fantasy Flight. Not to mention the crowd of crowd funded products we've seen in the last year. Furthermore just because a company goes tets up doesn't invalidate the material on the market. People can play any edition of GW games they choose the ink a paper (and the digitized illegal versions) will continue to live on.

 

 

But none of those do the large mass combat that GW fan like, though in all I think game stores would be hit the hardest as people tend to stop buying for a game as soon as it's not supported anymore. It will be interesting to see how kickstarter affects GW but last year has none on them as they had a record year of sales and people playing.

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I actually discovered that I like the Lizardmen from GW, but I can't seem to find them in less than units for the non-heroes, and I'm not a player, I just want a few minis to paint.

 

Try ebay, or you may have better luck with bartertown.com.

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GW runs (in their sponsored tournaments, anyway) a walled garden with monopolistic pricing, and sets pricing to significantly advantage people with more money.

 

Good news! GW doesn't sponsor tournaments anymore. Tourneys at the LGS are completely run at the store level now. The advantage to people with more money is completely due to how the game really works. Why have 1 good thing when 3 is better and 6 is superior? It's not tournaments but the actual meta of the game that is ruining the game. Now I have heard that GW considers themselves the Rolls Royce of gaming which will hurt them because the vast majority of their players don't have Rolls Royce budgets.

 

 

So I can use Reaper goblins, or Ral Partha Elves, or Old Glory renaissance figs in a GW tournament? Cool.

 

Otherwise it's still a walled garden with monopolistic pricing.

 

(Note that I always could do exactly that; minis are pretty counters that have no inherent effect on game play. I just couldn't do it in a GW-sponsored tournament, whether sponsored at a store level, a national level or a world-wide level. And if I liked their game system even a little bit, I would probably have done that.)

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The Auld Grump, nearly as popular as Alpha Centauri....

 

 

Well don't you have a high opinion of yourself! Thinking you're as popular as Alpha Centauri! I swear AC gets no respect these days. In MY day we had to travel to Alpha Centauri UPHILL! BOTH WAYS! Kazafacas *grumble*grumble*

 

Hey! The punch line was supposed to be 'So no one has ever visited you either?'. ::P:

 

Meanwhile... GW just gets crazier... have you seen the price for Dire Avengers?

 

The Auld Grump

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I own GW stuff, there's nothing wrong with it. Despite all the grief people give them they're quite important to this hobby as they make up the vast majority of the industry and if they disappeared tomorrow I doubt miniature gaming, hobby stores, or painting in general would recover more many years as there's nothing that could really fill the void.

Not true. Many former GW fans are moving to Privateer, Corvus Belli, Battlefront, and Fantasy Flight. Not to mention the crowd of crowd funded products we've seen in the last year. Furthermore just because a company goes tets up doesn't invalidate the material on the market. People can play any edition of GW games they choose the ink a paper (and the digitized illegal versions) will continue to live on.

 

 

But none of those do the large mass combat that GW fan like, though in all I think game stores would be hit the hardest as people tend to stop buying for a game as soon as it's not supported anymore. It will be interesting to see how kickstarter affects GW but last year has none on them as they had a record year of sales and people playing.

 

Try Kings of War - really good for large mass fantasy combats.

 

And pretty danged decent rules that are available for free on the Mantic site.

 

I play a lot of KoW.

 

The Auld Grump - six players, two games each... no arguments over rules.... :wub:

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So I can use Reaper goblins, or Ral Partha Elves, or Old Glory renaissance figs in a GW tournament? Cool.

 

 

Otherwise it's still a walled garden with monopolistic pricing.

 

(Note that I always could do exactly that; minis are pretty counters that have no inherent effect on game play. I just couldn't do it in a GW-sponsored tournament, whether sponsored at a store level, a national level or a world-wide level. And if I liked their game system even a little bit, I would probably have done that.)

 

 

Other than Games Day I've seen more and more non-GW figures in Tourney play. Minis actually are more than counters in three games I play.Their height is important as is the three dimensional shape.

 

Try Kings of War - really good for large mass fantasy combats.

 

And pretty danged decent rules that are available for free on the Mantic site.

 

I play a lot of KoW.

 

The Auld Grump - six players, two games each... no arguments over rules.... :wub:

 

 

I would if their wound to morale system didn't require a graduate degree in math. :poke:

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I own GW stuff, there's nothing wrong with it. Despite all the grief people give them they're quite important to this hobby as they make up the vast majority of the industry and if they disappeared tomorrow I doubt miniature gaming, hobby stores, or painting in general would recover more many years as there's nothing that could really fill the void.

Not true. Many former GW fans are moving to Privateer, Corvus Belli, Battlefront, and Fantasy Flight. Not to mention the crowd of crowd funded products we've seen in the last year. Furthermore just because a company goes tets up doesn't invalidate the material on the market. People can play any edition of GW games they choose the ink a paper (and the digitized illegal versions) will continue to live on.

But none of those do the large mass combat that GW fan like, though in all I think game stores would be hit the hardest as people tend to stop buying for a game as soon as it's not supported anymore. It will be interesting to see how kickstarter affects GW but last year has none on them as they had a record year of sales and people playing.

Try Kings of War - really good for large mass fantasy combats. And pretty danged decent rules that are available for free on the Mantic site. I play a lot of KoW. The Auld Grump - six players, two games each... no arguments over rules.... :wub:

I haven't actually played (can't get my group off the FoW crack), but I have massive undead, elven and Dwarven armies. Mantic's undead are great! Their elves are pretty cool too (even though I'm not an elfophile), but I don't like their style for dwarves (pity, I love dwarves) or orcs. The undead are partially painted, like most of my other projects.

 

Know anyone that wants a lot of Mantic elves and/or dwarves (unpainted/unprimed and if I recall, unassembled)? ;) PM me...

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@ loim: Yeah, you'll have to hit their website eBay or a third party. Just be sure to have a separate window open to look at the minis on GW's site since they prohibit third party from showing the item.

 

@Chaoswolf: that's a shame if they have changed it up that much. Granted I made that call in 06-07 so times do change.

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So I can use Reaper goblins, or Ral Partha Elves, or Old Glory renaissance figs in a GW tournament? Cool.

 

 

Otherwise it's still a walled garden with monopolistic pricing.

 

(Note that I always could do exactly that; minis are pretty counters that have no inherent effect on game play. I just couldn't do it in a GW-sponsored tournament, whether sponsored at a store level, a national level or a world-wide level. And if I liked their game system even a little bit, I would probably have done that.)

 

 

Other than Games Day I've seen more and more non-GW figures in Tourney play. Minis actually are more than counters in three games I play.Their height is important as is the three dimensional shape.

 

Try Kings of War - really good for large mass fantasy combats.

 

And pretty danged decent rules that are available for free on the Mantic site.

 

I play a lot of KoW.

 

The Auld Grump - six players, two games each... no arguments over rules.... :wub:

 

 

I would if their wound to morale system didn't require a graduate degree in math. :poke:

 

I teach and play Kings of War against twelve to fourteen year olds on a fairly regular basis.... I do not see the problem. :unsure: It does not take long for them to understand the rules.

 

It is simple addition and subtraction.... You add up the 'wounds', roll 2 dice, then check the total against the Nerve of the unit. 'Wounds' are kept, so it becomes more likely that a unit breaks as it absorbs damage. The 2D6 are discarded

 

If the total is above the first number listed for Nerve then the unit Wavers, if it is above the second number then you take the unit off of the board.

 

Subtract damage if there is healing.

 

Damage is taken by the unit - not individual models.

 

Essentially, the unit is treated as a single large model.

 

For the first time playing, you can try using index cards to represent units, instead of minis - just record the damage right on the card.

 

Or, just have a card for each unit, if you want to use the minis.

 

I used to teach Military Science at a summer program for gifted youth, KoW is actually easier to teach than either Warhammer Fantasy Battle or WARMACHINE.

 

The Auld Grump, my favorite moments were when I got beaten soundly by one of my students... meant that I had done my job.

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