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Y'know, I was sure they weren't going to do the Pathfinder figures. Partly due to the cost of the tooling, and partly because they don't own the rights to the figures. And if that's not bad enough, they're technically competing with Pathfinder's own line of plastic minis, now...

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This amused me, actually, because I felt that way about 3rd. And the old hippie guy at the comic store felt that way about 2nd.

 

Yeah… that was second edition for me. My group steadfastly refused to even consider second edition well into the nineties. Heck, a few of us got upset even before second edition when everything started getting more polished and generic-looking covers. We liked those old single-color module covers by Erol Otus and Jeff Dee, dangit!

 

It's a universal role-playing constant that you have to hate the first new release after the one you started with.

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I suspect it is just a common thing, not universal. I can't say I've had the problem. It helps that I played different game systems and genres within my first decade of role-playing. I get the feeling that some of you were locked into a single system.

 

Eric

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Actually, I spent as much time in Palladium games as AD&D 2nd.

 

Also a brief foray into GURPS and some Twilight: 2000.

 

For me, part of it was that I couldn't see how 3rd (a rather more drastic change than the one from 1st to 2nd) did anything better. Your mileage may vary.

 

But a bigger part of it was, and still is, that I'd as soon burn WotC to the ground than play one of their games because, as I see it, they came in when things were awesome and then laid waste to everything I loved like Huns sacking Rome. They ruined 2nd, straight-up murdered Ral Partha, created that abominable card game, and then made miniatures into cheap plastic randomized collectible crap (thank all the gods for Reaper to guide us through those dark ages).

 

No, I don't care what Wizards make. It could be the Greatest Thing Ever. We're blood enemies, forever, and that's a grudge I'm happy to carry.

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I have a sneaking suspicion that if another Pathfinder set of minis were revealed, say Pathfinder villains, this thing might explode off the charts.

 

Pathfinder (core) heroes might accomplish the same.

Dang, I need to post some winning lottery numbers and go play them.

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So . . . I was thinking. Always a dangerous undertaking, I know.

 

But here it is:

 

How many people are as excited about the cyber-monkey as I am?

 

And, if multiple people are, who would be interested in doing a group WIP when he shows up in the mailbox?

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So . . . I was thinking. Always a dangerous undertaking, I know.

 

But here it is:

 

How many people are as excited about the cyber-monkey as I am?

 

And, if multiple people are, who would be interested in doing a group WIP when he shows up in the mailbox?

 

Me. Oh me.

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Actually, I spent as much time in Palladium games as AD&D 2nd.

 

Also a brief foray into GURPS and some Twilight: 2000.

 

For me, part of it was that I couldn't see how 3rd (a rather more drastic change than the one from 1st to 2nd) did anything better. Your mileage may vary.

 

But a bigger part of it was, and still is, that I'd as soon burn WotC to the ground than play one of their games because, as I see it, they came in when things were awesome and then laid waste to everything I loved like Huns sacking Rome. They ruined 2nd, straight-up murdered Ral Partha, created that abominable card game, and then made miniatures into cheap plastic randomized collectible crap (thank all the gods for Reaper to guide us through those dark ages).

 

No, I don't care what Wizards make. It could be the Greatest Thing Ever. We're blood enemies, forever, and that's a grudge I'm happy to carry.

 

I can appreciate your attitude, but the truth of the matter's a little more complex than that.

 

I mourn TSR. I do. I loved their logo, clear back to the little line art wizard, all the way up to the fancy calligraphed letters they had on the day they shut down. Still have a TSR logo dicebag, among my most prized possessions.

 

...but WOTC didn't exactly go in intending to pillage and burn Dungeons and Dragons. Truth of the matter is, TSR's leadership made some questionable business decisions, and Peter Adkinson and Wizards loaned them money to pull through. And from everything I've heard about Adkinson, I'd be willing to allow that Adkinson did it for love of TSR and the hobby.

 

...and when the loan came due, TSR didn't have anything to pay with but its assets.

 

The thing that keeps me from hating Wizards for that is twofold: First of all, Wizards made sure the D&D brand did not die. They kept it available. Hell, for a long time, you could even buy downloads of old D&D product in PDF format; I understand the thing that stopped that was a Hasbro decision, not Wizards.

 

The second thing is... well, TSR did the exact same thing to SPI, back in the early eighties. SPI, for the young'uns among us, was a wargame company that also got into the RPG market with a rather clever and well written game called DragonQuest... a game which vanished from view and from the memory of man the second TSR got hold of SPI's intellectual properties. SPI couldn't compete with the million-dollar gorilla that was TSR, and borrowed money from TSR to reorganize... and when the bill came due, all they had to pay with was their IP.

 

Yeah, I love my hobbies, but sometimes it's business.

 

I would kind of like to hear your take on precisely how they destroyed Ral Partha; I am largely ignorant on that front.

 

The "abominable card game" was their top seller, and to my knowledge, still IS, although I could be wrong. It's a cash cow. You can keep putting out new cards FOREVER. A board game or RPG, on the other hand, is a lot more limited product. Y'know what? I don't have to buy their card games. I can dedicate myself just as well to products I am actually interested in... including products that are no longer in print. I do wish they'd still sell PDFs. But another company might well have just said "Forget this unprofitable D&D stuff, let's just sell Magic expansions forever." They didn't.

 

They DID try to turn minis collectible. I can't say I blame them. It's profitable. But their collectible plastic still ain't a stain on the stuff Reaper produces, and as long as there's that kind of difference in quality, I don't think Reaper was ever in much danger. (I give up. How DID they kill Ral Partha?)

 

So, yeah, I miss TSR, and I do wish that Wizards was still an independent entity, rather than a fully owned subsidiary of Hasbro. But I'm not quite ready to go all full blown gonzo Godwin on them yet...

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Was I the only one excited about the Black Dynamite er...I mean 'zombie hunter pimp' mini?

 

Nope, so was I.

 

So much, in fact, that I was rather disappointed to find the beastie of the new reveal is neither "The Jibber Jabber Wocky" nor "The Jive Wockey".

 

That's ok, though. I'll make The Pimp a street informer for Wyrmgear and the Cyber-Ape. Many a jive turkey will know the taste of justice that day, I can tell you.

 

 

But it is a Wiebe Wocky is considerably higher on the cool factor.

Edited by Heisler

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I'd kill for Wizards and TSR to still be their own entities, but yeah the core of the problem is definitely Hasbro. They've recently made some changes to Magic as well that are because Hasbro has said No - less free good incentives for the players.

 

I used to play AD&D and while it was good fun, 3rd opened up the park to get rid of a lot of the things that bugged me, like no elven paladins and the like.

 

I've tried 4th ed 'encounters' and yeah it was kind of disheartening, all about the combat and you can play dark elves as a PC? Really?! Man that's something that just bugged me the wrong way. Not to mention from reading this thread, being a Drider is now a reward? Wow, way to trash all those years of lore.

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Well there were these things called D&D sessions, and people got these funky card sets and would show up at those D&D sessions with those cards.

Player 1: "Hey let's play Magic the Gatherin!"

Player 2: "Sure! I got my cards here too."

Dm: "Wha?..."

Player 3: "... well I don't have any cards. I'll try to bring some next time. Hey, you got any cheetos?"

Dm: "GET OUT! ALL OF YOU!"

 

xD

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