Kickstarter Discussion Thread

[Galahad@Heresy-Online]

Metal minis have their advantages, they were the first so they paved the way and deserve respect for that, and they;re cheaper to produce so you get a lot more daring designs.

 

But from a purely consumer-centric POV, I'll paraphrase my hero Soundwave:

Plastic Figs: Superior

Metal Figs: Inferior.

[buglips*the*goblin]

I'll grant plastic miniatures are more useful for gaming, but metal is superior in quality. That's why my Bones are going straight to the front line, but my precious (so precious) metals go on the Good Shelf.

 

Heavy Metal forever!

[dwarvenranger]

Heaaavvvyy Meetal!

[Galahad@Heresy-Online]

I'll grant plastic miniatures are more useful for gaming, but metal is superior in quality. That's why my Bones are going straight to the front line, but my precious (so precious) metals go on the Good Shelf.

 

Heavy Metal forever!

 

In what way are they superior quality?

Bear in mind, I'm talking plastic in general, not just bones. GW for example, puts out some insanely detailed plastics for example. While they don;t have the durability or price point of Bones, they're still cheaper, sturdier and generally superior to metal versions of the same

[Dan d'Lyon]

Don't forget that Buglips put so much into Bones that he can't afford to keep the stankiness on his shoes right now. Whereas I have my nice new stanky shoes that came with my uniform.....

[buglips*the*goblin]

Heaaavvvyy Meetal!

 

 

The Loc-nar approves.

 

Incidentally, the Loc-nar is the greatest storyteller ever. He told a story so crazy it killed him. Mad talent.

[Ravenhex]

Why I like metal... acetone removes the paint. So after I mess them up I can remove 100% of the paint in a few minutes.

Can't do that with plastic.

I have had hard plastic minis break, they hit a hard kitchen floor and little weapons snap.

[buglips*the*goblin]

I'll grant plastic miniatures are more useful for gaming, but metal is superior in quality. That's why my Bones are going straight to the front line, but my precious (so precious) metals go on the Good Shelf.

 

Heavy Metal forever!

 

In what way are they superior quality?

Bear in mind, I'm talking plastic in general, not just bones. GW for example, puts out some insanely detailed plastics for example. While they don;t have the durability or price point of Bones, they're still cheaper, sturdier and generally superior to metal versions of the same

 

Plastic will never match metal for detail fidelity. Now Bones are some fiiiinnnne plastics, but their metal counterpart still wins.

 

This may be a negligible difference to some, particularly if the primary use is gaming, but as a collector I'm going to spend the extra on metal every time.

 

Plastic has built-in detail limitations. It can get close, but never equal quality. That's why top-end model kits include metal superdetail parts to replace the provided plastic ones. And compared to even 5 years ago the quality of injection-molded plastic is still mindblowing - nevertheless, if you want detail fidelity only metal will do.

 

My miniatures are for collecting. Game use is incidental (actually, for three years I wasn't gaming at all, just buying and painting minis). If my primary use for them was gaming, I'd go for plastic. Detail is less important than durability then.

 

Strictly on quality, metal wins. Strictly on usefulness, plastic wins. That's pretty much how I see it breaking down. If I didn't have a gaming use for Bones I wouldn't go near them. Doesn't mean they're crap, but it does mean they're inferior quality to a commensurate metal piece.

[Galahad@Heresy-Online]

Why I like metal... acetone removes the paint. So after I mess them up I can remove 100% of the paint in a few minutes.

Can't do that with plastic.

 

Rubbing alcohol or Simple Green are both safe to use to strip plastics with.

 

I have had hard plastic minis break, they hit a hard kitchen floor and little weapons snap.

 

True, and I've had the same happen with metal. The good thing about plastic is a little styrene cement and it;s literally as good as new, it'd be like welding a piece back onto a metal mini. It's harder to fix metal. Meanwhile bones plastic is almost as detailed and much less prone to breakage.

 

 

Plastic will never match metal for detail fidelity. Now Bones are some fiiiinnnne plastics, but their metal counterpart still wins.

 

This may be a negligible difference to some, particularly if the primary use is gaming, but as a collector I'm going to spend the extra on metal every time.

 

Plastic has built-in detail limitations. It can get close, but never equal quality. That's why top-end model kits include metal superdetail parts to replace the provided plastic ones. And compared to even 5 years ago the quality of injection-molded plastic is still mindblowing - nevertheless, if you want detail fidelity only metal will do.

 

I'll argue this one. Bones plastic, sure, it;s softer so it won;t hold as sharp of detail.

 

but injection molded ABS?

Have you SEEN some of the recent Games Workshop plastics?

 

check out this guy from the new starter set about to be released

 

The faces in his daemon blade, the embroidery on his cape, the little teeth on the skulls in his backpack, the ribs in the palm of the gauntlet holding the pistol, the itty bitty chaos star on the skill in his shoulder all copied perfectly from laser-cut moulds.

 

And they're still cheaper and hardier than metal.

 

And that mini, btw, is going to be just a couple of pieces gang-moulded with a bunch of other insanely detailed chaos marines designed to be as cheap as possible and as easy as possible for people to assemble since this is meant to be for their introductory set targeted at newbies.

 

My miniatures are for collecting. Game use is incidental (actually, for three years I wasn't gaming at all, just buying and painting minis). If my primary use for them was gaming, I'd go for plastic. Detail is less important than durability then.

 

Strictly on quality, metal wins. Strictly on usefulness, plastic wins. That's pretty much how I see it breaking down. If I didn't have a gaming use for Bones I wouldn't go near them. Doesn't mean they're crap, but it does mean they're inferior quality to a commensurate metal piece.

 

Maybe I've been spoiled by GW's awesome plastics, but I just do not see any lack of detail when there's panel lines on a stock space marine tactical squaddie so fine you have to thin your ink washes just to get something in there.

[Ravenhex]

It takes minutes to remove with acetone, and all the paint and primer comes off.

I have tried scrubbing with rubbing alchol and it takes too long for me, personal choice and all that.

 

I have never had a metal mini break when it fell on the the floor, so I don't know how hard it is to fix them :)

[buglips*the*goblin]

I use gap-filling gel superglue on my metals. It gives a strong bond. Sometimes this is not such a good thing, like when I glued one of Takhisis's dragon heads on wrong and had to try and pry it back off.

 

Looking at a limited-edition 20 year old mini and knowing it's pliers time if you're going to get that back off - that's a soul tester right there.

[psyberwolfe1]

In what way are they superior quality?

Bear in mind, I'm talking plastic in general, not just bones. GW for example, puts out some insanely detailed plastics for example. While they don;t have the durability or price point of Bones, they're still cheaper, sturdier and generally superior to metal versions of the same

 

Something that plastic doesn't bear well is very fine, sharp, shallow detail. An example of this can be seen here. As you can see on that model the filigree on the armor and banners can't be replicated well in plastic. The reason there are so many after market brass etch detail kits for plastic models is that metal will always carry detail better. My Metal GW Ork Kommandos are so much better than their Fastcash... I ...er.. Finecast counterparts.

 

Yes multi piece metal models are fragile but I have gluing them back together isn't a problem I care about. I have a kid so I choose to let my kid handle my figures so as he grows up he'll want to play with his old man. If they break whatever they're just toys that I can fix.

 

Seriously folks this argument is as old as the hills. Metal is cool and so is plastic. They both serve a purpose. If' y'all keep it up I'll start posting pancake bunny and Wil Wheaton collating paper pics.

[psyberwolfe1]

I use gap-filling gel superglue on my metals. It gives a strong bond. Sometimes this is not such a good thing, like when I glued one of Takhisis's dragon heads on wrong and had to try and pry it back off.

 

Looking at a limited-edition 20 year old mini and knowing it's pliers time if you're going to get that back off - that's a soul tester right there.

 

That's why we have BSI Un-Cure. Works like a charm everytime. It will ruin your paint job but you're already there if you're using pliers to pull a head off.

[Galahad@Heresy-Online]

Something that plastic doesn't bear well is very fine, sharp, shallow detail. An example of this can be seen here. As you can see on that model the filigree on the armor and banners can't be replicated well in plastic. The reason there are so many after market brass etch detail kits for plastic models is that metal will always carry detail better. My Metal GW Ork Kommandos are so much better than their Fastcash... I ...er.. Finecast counterparts.

 

I've seen the same level of detail on GW plastics. See the character I posted above from the new starter set.

 

Finecast is another matter entirely, I'm not a fan. I'd rather kitbash something cooler out of plastic for less.

[buglips*the*goblin]

Maybe I've been spoiled by GW's awesome plastics, but I just do not see any lack of detail when there's panel lines on a stock space marine tactical squaddie so fine you have to thin your ink washes just to get something in there.

 

Sure, and if you look at a Pacific Coast Models Cr. 42 the panel line detail is mindblowing - but you're still going to have to do the cockpit bits with metal.

 

GW works within the limitations of plastic (and their exaggerated style) to create detail. But if you took one of Reaper's nicest metal girlies, sent it to GW and said "make this just as good" they won't be able to.

 

So if you want a dude in big armor with outlandish proportions, yes, you're probably going to get a satisfactory level of detail for that style in plastic. This =/= what Reaper can do with a smaller, less grotesquely proportioned metal piece.

 

Like Psyberwolfe said, this argument is as old as the hills. It's always come down to, and always will, a balance of intended use vs. limitations of the material.

 

 

ETA: This does not, of course, imply that every metal mini is superior to every plastic. Only that given the limitations of both materials metal has superior capacity for fine detail. I've seen some pretty horrid metal figures. Awful, terrible things. Stuff of nightmares.

 

And I'm trying my best to be objective here, and leave taste out of it, because I absolutely abhor GW's style and always have.

 

 

ETA 2: Actually, a better comparison would be the stuff from Mantic. My painting partner has some of that here and it's astonishingly nice. And free of my GW prejudice. But nice as they are, I'd still take metal. But those are some really nice plastics!

 

 

ETA 2.5 I just took a look at his Mantic Elves (which are tiny) and I am impressed. I think they might fail the durability test, though.