Kickstarter Discussion Thread

[Shady_Character]

There are other factors which make metal or plastic better for different situations but I am going to address the concern of detail raised earlier.

 

The advantage metal has over plastic is the slight undercuts but in depth of detail and sharpness, the difference if not as good, is still good enough as to be negligible. Metals can get slight undercuts because the rubber moulds used are flexible compared to the decidedly inflexible steel dies needed for plastic.

 

Using multiple components you can in effect get even further undercuts though this will mean join lines which may or may not be an issue. For example joining a shoulder to a torso (bare skin for the argument) will leave an undesirable join line. However fitting a water skin to a belt/waist is perfectly fine for it being a separate component.

 

The heroic scale of GW has nothing to do with it. Looking at the plastic Dust models from FFG, they are not heroic proportioned and they work great in plastic.

 

The point is the main advantage that metal has depends on the design, but very often plastic is just as good as metal.

 

Edit: Metal has another advantage, the moulds are more economical in lower production numbers.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Shady_Character

[thatguywiththeface]

A POX ON HARD PLASTIC AND A POX ON METAL.

 

How about that plastic judas bloodspire? I can't wait to paint him up and use him as a Pathfinder Dhampyr PC or maybe a big, scary villain c: I'm sure he could also be used as a half-fiend or a devil <33

Edited August 30, 2012 by thatguywiththeface

[buglips*the*goblin]

Everybody needs to remember there's a difference between preference and fact. (I know this, that's why I'm talking half out the side of my mouth here)

 

Outside of limitations of the material, that's all it is. That's all it's ever been. My tongue-in-cheek horror at plastics is less about plastics being objectively terrible, and more a nod to the age of the debate. It's irresolvable (or it would have been resolved already).

 

It's like any other part of this hobby. It's a big hobby. I mean, I can't stand Games Workshop. At all. Not even a little bit. I don't care how nicely it's painted, I wouldn't let you use that for your character. I have a deep, nearly irrational hatred of GW. And not because of their current policies or direction, it's always been this way.

 

But obviously it's silly for me to try and objectively argue that they suck. Millions of people love 'em. Damn if I could tell you why, since I hate the things and think they're awful, but they do. And that's fine, because I like RAFM. Most people haven't even heard of RAFM, and they have a reputation for low quality models. Is GW's current stuff better than RAFM's catalog of metal?

 

Yes. God yes. Most RAFM are like primitive caveman miniatures. They're objectively worse, and I still like them better than GW.

 

See? Taste and preference.

 

If you eliminate taste, preference, and prejudice from any argument 99% of human problems are solved before they begin.

[dwarvenranger]

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[Nocturne]

I like to take the stance of "I like miniatures". Materials or manufacturer don't bother me, just whether I find the end result appealing.

[buglips*the*goblin]

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

 

Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes!

 

If we're wrong, then nothing happens. We go to jail, peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it. But if we're right, and we can stop this thing... Lenny, you will have saved the lives of millions of registered voters.

[thatguywiththeface]

Ghost busters reference. Nice.

[smokingwreckage]

Some of the old GW plastics are objectively and factually totally awful and I ashamed of ever having been gullible enough to buy them. The new ones seem pretty good, but the use of a billion tiny parts - to overcome the undercut problem, and the side-detail problem, and if you don't believe in those go check out an old Necromunda plastic miniature - is really not to my taste.

 

Gluing two parts, even three? Fine! Gluing leg, torso, head, arm, arm, weapon, then options? KILL ME NOW! I have friends who love it, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye.

[Dan d'Lyon]

Some of the old GW plastics are objectively and factually totally awful and I ashamed of ever having been gullible enough to buy them. The new ones seem pretty good, but the use of a billion tiny parts - to overcome the undercut problem, and the side-detail problem, and if you don't believe in those go check out an old Necromunda plastic miniature - is really not to my taste.

 

Gluing two parts, even three? Fine! Gluing leg, torso, head, arm, arm, weapon, then options? KILL ME NOW! I have friends who love it, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye.

 

That's the exact problem I'm having with some Mantic plastics I'm currently working on. As far as I can tell, there's absolutely no reason they need to be in at least 4 parts. Unfortunately, I agreed to paint them for demos at a con in October, so.... But I am certainly not planning to buy any for myself.

[Nocturne]

Gluing two parts, even three? Fine! Gluing leg, torso, head, arm, arm, weapon, then options? KILL ME NOW! I have friends who love it, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye.

 

Man alive I love me some multipart figures. I can happily spend hours posing the multipart figures and cobbling things together. Then it promptly makes it's way to the "painting to do" section, AKA Limbo.

[Heisler]

I think that the level of detail can be almost equal to for plastic to match the detail of metal it has to be a multi-part kit to get around the voids that seem to occur in the single piece plastic minis. GWs LoTR series is a good example of this the metals (sigh now gone) were far superior to the plastics, although the plastics are great for bulk troops. The more pieces that plastic comes in the more detailed they usually are although I agree that when it comes down to super fine detail metal or resin (I know a form of plastic) is usually far superior to plastic. Now BONES is looking like its going to be an exception to this. I know that Michael painted the werewolf and to be honest I can't tell the difference between the plastic one and the metal one so plastics appear to definitely be climbing higher, at least the Reaper plastics. I think its the ability to get a deep cut in the metal that really makes the difference. But in the end when its painted and on the table the average gamer can't tell the difference until they pick it up. For a competition piece that might be an entirely different story. I did a Perry French Hussar from their plastic for a competition piece and it drove me crazy because it lacked detail that would have been there in metal but kind of faded away in the plastic, a definite lack of definition and the Perry plastics are some of the best out there for the historical gamer.

[thatguywiththeface]

So, anyone else getting Kaladrax instead of Nethyrmaul simply because Kaladrax is cheaper?

[buglips*the*goblin]

Not me. I'm all about Nethy.

 

The Bones are interesting, but the detail is noticeably softer than the metal version. I'm more than happy to live with that in order to put lots of monsters on the table. And it's not far off the metal, I'm just picky enough to notice it.

 

Also, it's interesting to see the different preferences. Many of which are reflected here: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=269611&page=1

 

Seadragon and Nocturne are polar opposites. I'm curmudgeonly about it all.

 

Well, actually, if you want to know the truth, I split my hobbies right down the middle. I love building plastic model kits, but I can't stand painting them. And I love painting miniatures, but I loathe assembling them. Never the twain shall meet if I can avoid it.

 

Now at the same time, all of this goes completely out the window for 1/72 wargaming. There I'm working in all plastic using kits and small figures that are essentially army men still on the sprue.

 

So I guess the moral of the story is that I don't make any sense. But that's fine, I don't have to make sense consarnit.

[psyberwolfe1]

So, anyone else getting Kaladrax instead of Nethyrmaul simply because Kaladrax is cheaper?

 

Nope getting them both.

[Orlando_the_Technicoloured]

Snap Buglips

 

Building/converting/detailing 1/35 tanks, great and relaxing

 

painting them, er, well, let's start a new build instead (unless I'm super inspired)

 

whereas painting minis is fun (I even struggle to force myself to finish painting 1/35 scale crew, but can paint a larger giant in 38mm scale)

 

why got no idea