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Reaperbryan
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This might seem like a silly idea but as far as the RPM goes, wouldn't it be simpler to add all the levels available and additional pledge options as unique items to a special section of the already existing Reaper Online store - then generate unique customer codes of "store credit" in the amount already pledged by each individual. This solves the issue of being able to pick and choose what you want to get for donation AND allows you to give more by buying more items if you so desired but were unable to.

 

I mean, why attempt to reinvent the wheel. You've already got the infrastructure storefront. For quality assurance, you can even release the codes in waves so as to prevent server overload and not be hit with 17k+ orders in one day.

A couple of problems I can see... first, the webstore's shopping cart might be a commercial off-the-shelf product with limited/no ability to customize it, and I think with the next two problems some customization would be required -- First, the international shipping. In the Kickstarter the shipping model was that each pledge level had a shipping cost associated with it from $0 to $25. When selecting multiple pledge levels, up to 4 of any one, you pay only the highest shipping cost. Likewise each option or extra set had shipping costs associated from $0 to $5, and again you paid only the highest shipping cost of either the pledge level or the highest priced option, until you reached 5 of any single pledge level or option, at which point you added the associated shipping cost for each additional one above 4. At least, I think I got that right. :blink: I think the current shipping calculator is size/weight + destination based.

 

Second, they would also need to partition the store to prevent non-Kickstarter options from being in the same cart as Kickstarter options. The Kickstarter production run will be a separate fulfillment process that means only selections from the KS are going in the box they ship in March.

 

Anyway, both solvable problems, but might add enough complexity that rolling a new webform might be easier. They could still opt to do it, because not reinventing the wheel is a great thing, but it's not as easy as it sounds at first.

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Speaking from experience, its actually part of what I do, I believe Reaper is definitely better off developing a second app for this. The data is coming from an entirely different source and likely in a different format. Better to create a new engine than to try and twist and existing system in to accepting information its not geared for. On top of that if Reaper does even one more kickstarter the effort will be worth it. They do have to get detailed information from some 17,000+ people who are likely to flood the RPM as soon as it goes up and you don't want the online store going down because of the crunch. Plus the don't have the data from KS anyway so may as well do something specifically geared for that information.

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This might seem like a silly idea but as far as the RPM goes, wouldn't it be simpler to add all the levels available and additional pledge options as unique items to a special section of the already existing Reaper Online store - then generate unique customer codes of "store credit" in the amount already pledged by each individual. This solves the issue of being able to pick and choose what you want to get for donation AND allows you to give more by buying more items if you so desired but were unable to.

 

I mean, why attempt to reinvent the wheel. You've already got the infrastructure storefront. For quality assurance, you can even release the codes in waves so as to prevent server overload and not be hit with 17k+ orders in one day.

A couple of problems I can see... first, the webstore's shopping cart might be a commercial off-the-shelf product with limited/no ability to customize it, and I think with the next two problems some customization would be required -- First, the international shipping. In the Kickstarter the shipping model was that each pledge level had a shipping cost associated with it from $0 to $25. When selecting multiple pledge levels, up to 4 of any one, you pay only the highest shipping cost. Likewise each option or extra set had shipping costs associated from $0 to $5, and again you paid only the highest shipping cost of either the pledge level or the highest priced option, until you reached 5 of any single pledge level or option, at which point you added the associated shipping cost for each additional one above 4. At least, I think I got that right. :blink: I think the current shipping calculator is size/weight + destination based.

 

Second, they would also need to partition the store to prevent non-Kickstarter options from being in the same cart as Kickstarter options. The Kickstarter production run will be a separate fulfillment process that means only selections from the KS are going in the box they ship in March.

 

Anyway, both solvable problems, but might add enough complexity that rolling a new webform might be easier. They could still opt to do it, because not reinventing the wheel is a great thing, but it's not as easy as it sounds at first.

While on the surface I will admit I didn't take the shipping for international into consideration. I now start to wonder what the % of international donations was. Secondly, how does their existing store handle international shipping? I assumed it would be identical and using the same practices / policies they already had in place. I dont live internationally so I never looked. Am I wrong on that they are not using something different for their existing policies for international shipping? I don't pretend to know reaper's store engine but I am aware they have the capability to generate single use discount codes which was my line of thinking for the amount donated as a discount. They've actually given me a special single use code in the past as a discount code for an error in a reorder. My intention wasn't to try and fit a square peg into a round hole. I guess I miss worded. You can have a separate "store" that uses the same back end engine with modifications. The modifications make the separate instance but accomplishes the need to not reinvent the wheel of having to come up with something completely new to fill the need they have.

As I see it, to use my idea, the data they need to get from Kickstarter really just boils down to Who donated What total amount (John Smith = $275) to build the discount code and how to contact them individually by email (John Smith = [email protected]). Add in a specific number of the discount codes into the system. Generate unique emails to each individual with their specific discount code included (which can be automated) and send out the invite to those specific individuals by waves to reduce the server load over a set period of time.

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While on the surface I will admit I didn't take the shipping for international into consideration. I now start to wonder what the % of international donations was. Secondly, how does their existing store handle international shipping?

 

There were a lot of international bacckers, and the webstore handles shipping in a completely different manner to the KS. You can check.

 

I am aware they have the capability to generate single use discount codes which was my line of thinking for the amount donated as a discount.

 

That would be cumbersome, and probably too insecure for over a million dollars' worth of merchandise.

 

You can have a separate "store" that uses the same back end engine with modifications. The modifications make the separate instance but accomplishes the need to not reinvent the wheel of having to come up with something completely new to fill the need they have.

 

Essentially that require running the store as two separate instances. From my limited experience administering small networks, that would be hell on earth.

 

Generate unique emails to each individual with their specific discount code included (which can be automated) and send out the invite to those specific individuals by waves to reduce the server load over a set period of time.

 

If they don't integrate with KS in some way, that would mean hand-managing all the data from over 17,000 backers.

 

As for reinventing the wheel, I doubt Reaper are hand-coding a solution from the ground up, so really you don't need to worry about that. They are pros, they will be handling this in the best available manner. Having worked with pros and seen pros make mistakes, I can still say that at the very least, anything they're specifically avoiding is probably a very, very bad idea for reasons that only become obvious when you are "on the inside".

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No worries Kavidium, I think the general idea is sound, but I do think there are too many obstacles in place. The international shipping is a big component. According to my fan site traffic, only 69.7% was US+Canada. The other 30.3% (5376 backers) would be paying international shipping. The current Reaper store uses a completely different approach to calculate shipping, and applies shipping for the US as well.

 

Having seen the pledge manager for projects like Zombicide and Sedition Wars (both big ticket campaigns for lots of product) I think they have a reasonably simple task ahead of them. This other pledge manager was just a web form with some javascript to enforce the logic behind your decisions. Some things they had to handle were "limit 3 per $100 pledge level", international shipping on various rewards and options (though not as complex as Reapers), and some other options being unlimited in quantity. When you submit the form, a server-side process checks the logic in the selections, and accepts it or rejects it. Once the balance is known on the server side, it redirects you to PayPal's payment portal, saying to PayPal "This person needs to pay $x". If you complete the PayPal process, PayPal informs them that you've paid, and the pledge manager process is complete. I don't want to trivialize the task ahead of them, but it's definitely not a huge undertaking as web applications go either.

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I don't want to trivialize the task ahead of them, but it's definitely not a huge undertaking as web applications go either.

 

I definitely agree GregR. Making a custom web app and building the backend isn't that painful. Admittedly there is no rush, and with only 17k backers they could honestly do manual taking of orders if completely necessary.

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I don't want to trivialize the task ahead of them, but it's definitely not a huge undertaking as web applications go either.

 

I definitely agree GregR. Making a custom web app and building the backend isn't that painful. Admittedly there is no rush, and with only 17k backers they could honestly do manual taking of orders if completely necessary.

 

 

17k would be easy to do manually? :blink:

 

Let's see here, maybe 5 minutes each given parsing an email / other input, copy and pasting to a database, checking it, and some slack for the cases where you have to go back and forth with a customer who has missing information?

 

17,000 x 5 min = 85,000 min = 1416 hrs = 59 man-days just for data entry? And, given how error prone people are, are you sure you want manual entry?

 

I think that we should trust that the people who have an understanding of the situation and all the details to do the right thing. It's pretty easy to arm chair quarterback/general when you aren't on the spot and with all of the information (including what else they have to do).

 

Ron

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NPR article on KS:

 

http://www.npr.org/b...heir-money-back

 

Seriously, NPR, do you people have a clue what KS is???

 

NPR has actually done a good job reporting the issue; it's the people interviewed in the article that need more clarity as to KS' purpose.

 

The last line of the article, "Kickstarter and hundreds of similar platforms will have to sort out if each transaction is a donation or a purchase," sums it up pretty well. And KS' response to the article is excellently done.

 

I've seen a lot of people in this thread and the Bones KS comments who seem to believe they have made a purchase. This is not the case. Although Reaper (as an example; I fully trust that they will follow through 100%) is--based on KS' user guidelines--legally required to fulfill all rewards or refund the donation, backers have not actually bought anything (important from the start for sales tax, etc., and important as we get fulfillment--or don't--for the protection of the funded company).

 

If you (the universal, inspecific "you") donate to the Red Cross, and later hear that earthquake victims in Haiti died, you don't ask for a refund. You know that your donation still helped the organization make the best possible effort in the face of calamity. If you donate to Reaper, and the price of tooling for molds suddenly skyrockets and they can't deliver the last 20% of the minis (again, NOT a prediction of any kind), you still know that your donation was used wisely and well in producing the 80% they are able to make. You haven't actually purchased Nethyrmaul or Kally Redux; you've helped make it possible for Reaper to eventually produce them.

 

The KS fulfillment guideline is meant as a last-ditch effort against take-the-money-and-run projects (which I haven't heard of; does anyone know if a KS project has ever literally taken the money and done nothing related to the project with it?).

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I am not complaining, as the vampire deal is totally awesome, but I find myself wishing that there were options for buying more of the first, main block of mini's they were casting for plastic. Specifically, I find myself wanting more than one hellhound! So put it on the desired features wish-list of the pledge manager please!

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I have a horrible, horrible feeling that I will end up spending even more than I am already once the RPM is finished.

 

I was pretty much tapped out by the end (bought at least 1 of everything except paints) and yet I still wanted some more duplicates of someof the dragons and other large sculpts etc.

 

Unfortunately Reaper are giving me another chance to spend money! Argh!

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I have a horrible, horrible feeling that I will end up spending even more than I am already once the RPM is finished.

 

I was pretty much tapped out by the end (bought at least 1 of everything except paints) and yet I still wanted some more duplicates of someof the dragons and other large sculpts etc.

 

Unfortunately Reaper are giving me another chance to spend money! Argh!

 

I share your horrible, horrible feeling about ending up spending more money once the RPM is finished...

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