Kickstarter Discussion Thread

[Baphomet69]

Welcome to the addiction, er, I mean hobby!

 

And welcome to the asylum, er, I mean forums!

 

;)

[kpsmith]

I had one question, with the Fire Giants, Frost Giants and Ebonwrath you can get from the Kickstarter with the bonus pledge, are those polymer Bones versions?

[Baphomet69]

Yes. The only non-Bones figures are the Sophies and the Crown Jewels.

[kpsmith]

Okay, awesome. I figure with the dungeon attack set of 36 miniatures, that should be pretty good experience for the basics of painting.

[Baphomet69]

You do know that the giants and ebonwrath aren't available options at the Ghast level, right? The only options thus far that you can choose at any level are the orcpocalypse and the paint sets.

[kpsmith]

I was going for the Vampire level, its such a great deal.

[Baphomet69]

Ok, just wanted to make sure.

 

And you are right, it is! And getting better every day! ;)

[kpsmith]

My wife is also pretty excited about it. We're creative individuals and artists in our own right. However, we've never done miniature painting before. I'm hoping this will be a fun way to compliment our tabletop games and make our board games more exciting.

[Baphomet69]

I can almost guarantee you won't be disappointed. Adding that 3rd dimension to tabletop games (and board games) really adds more than the sum of the parts, as they say. Most people also enjoy the zen-like quality of painting the minis.

 

The fact that you can share all this with your wife is fantastic!

 

 

EDIT: And this new material they are using for Bones is almost scary, it's so cool. The quality/price point is beyond reality.

[kpsmith]

My question is why it took so long to find a material that made it so cheap? Looking at the modules like Ebonwrath compared to his orginal price... Wow. I imagine compared to the kickstarter, we'll roughly see the models at twice the kickstarter add one but that's still amazing.

[Baphomet69]

None of the plastics tried before (by anyone) had the qualities that this one does. They would hold less detail, or be too brittle (in the case of resins), cost too much, have a finish that was not friendly to painting or some combination of those factors.

 

As for the Bones material...I guess they had to wait for the meteor to crash to Earth that brought it to us...

[kpsmith]

Clearly.

 

I honestly think this new low cost material for miniatures will help open it up to a wider audience of hobbyist. The price was always a deterrant to me to even consider wargaming.

[DixonGrfx]

The PVC used for the Bones line is unique for sure. Truly perfect for this application. But its more than just finding the right plastic. Casting plastic is a fundamentally different process than casting for metal. Casting in plastic requires a far larger upfront financial risk.

[Shakandara]

But its more than just finding the right plastic. Casting plastic is a fundamentally different process than casting for metal. Casting in plastic requires a far larger upfront financial risk.

 

QFT. Reaper has been using this material for several years now, but the process and equipment has been cost-prohibitive for them to do it A) in house, and B) quickly. They've been slowly adding to the lines, and as Kit mentioned in the KS video, given enough time, the Bones line would have eventually reached a significant level. Reaper's been doing their thing for 20 years to get to where they are now in metal; Bones wasn't going to get to the same place overnight, or even in a couple years.

 

The success of the KS project changes everything.

 

~v

[Wren]

Part of the pricing problem is why Reaper is having this Kickstarter. The materials cost to make the Bones miniatures is much less expensive than the cost of metal to make metal figures. But the exact opposite is true for the cost of making the equipment (moulds) to cast the miniatures. A mould to cast a metal miniature might cost a few hundred dollars. A mould to cast a plastic miniature could cost thousands, possibly more than 10,000. That's a huge upfront cost, and it affects a lot of things. It's not a huge capital investment to make several different moulds for metal miniatures. As long as at least some of the miniatures are popular, you'll make the money back over the group, and you can have a larger set of figures. (Reaper puts out something like a dozen or minis a month.) You need a lot more capital to make a similar number of moulds to cast in plastic, and the risk of duds is a lot more serious!

 

An additional factor is that over time, people who are into miniatures have come to prefer metal. Metal miniatures have traditionally been better crafted and the added weight is prefered by many. It's taken a pretty dramatic shift in the price of metal as well as advances in plastics over the past few years to nudge both consumers and producers into considering better and cheaper ways to work with plastic.

 

*Big disclaimer - I just paint things for Reaper, I'm not privvy to any of the accounting. I'm basing my numbers on info I've gotten off other boards from other miniature manufacturers. So my numbers could be way off! I think the general principle that moulds for plastic miniatures cost a lot more than moulds for metal miniatures is correct, but no real idea on the exact figures.