Argentee Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Might I suggest that arguing about it here solves nothing and merely raises tempers on both sides? @gentlegiant I would suggest you email Bryan and Kit @reapermini.com and/or PM them directly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistwalker Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Might I suggest that arguing about it here solves nothing and merely raises tempers on both sides? @gentlegiant I would suggest you email Bryan and Kit @reapermini.com and/or PM them directly. Seconded, as it is a very reasonable suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleGiant Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I could, but I don't think anything is going to happen unless other international customers also chime in, so I'm primarily making my case here. I also don't see why US customers should be "against" us (international customers) getting the products at the same time as them. It won't affect them at all, so any argument against it would be because of...? What? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingo Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'm sorry for the contract misinformation, Gentle Giant. I've already gone back to retract it, and I was wrong in that part of what I said. As for the rest of it, I understand that it is disappointing and you'd like to have your paints soon. But even under Kickstarter's terms, Reaper is holding up their end of the bargain insofar as the pledgers will get everything expected, even if the schedule is somewhat different from the original projections. Reaper perhaps could have been more clear about the problems with double shipping internationally, and I can understand distress at this delay, but it's perhaps better to have patience than to request a service which is harmful to the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleGiant Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 No worries Pingo. I wouldn't say that it's "harmful" to the company, just less profitable. Heck, I'd be willing to up our pledge to cover some more shipping if we'd get the option to add more minis to our March shipment for that amount (since the figures, when it comes to actual casting them, are very cheap on an individual basis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Administrators kit Posted October 1, 2012 Super Administrators Share Posted October 1, 2012 I can take this to the powers that be, but I can't promise anything either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miar Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I agree that this is deeply uncool however I'm about complained out given my other thread and more into being apathetic now. This seems like something that should have been figured out well before the Kickstarter ended. Things like the sculpt switch for the elves don't bother me because this seems like last minute hitch that could not have been anticipated. Right now I feel like I have more productive things I to think about. I won't be making a order for more bones though now because I won't have the paints to paint them until the Kickstarter bones arrive anyway at which point I will have a ton to paint. That said I do have a question before I go through the pledge manager. Can I get confirmation that nothing has changed in the way the order will be declared with customs. A Vampire pledge + international shipping + options = the base value of the vampire pledge (100$) and a double vampire will still be 100$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced1106 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 This *is* KickStarter. It's not even a pre-order. In return for the KickStarter exclusive and discounted goods we have long waiting times, delays, unexpected inconveniences, and sometimes no product at all. It's classic risk / reward ratio. So far, with this KS, Reaper has delayed the RPM, reduced the RPM response time, cancelled two sculpts, released an RPM incompatible with IE, and made early international shipping unavailable for paints and Sophie. I expect more in the future, and you should too. If you are dissatisfied with this level of service, write to Reaper and see if you can cancel your pledge. Me, my only issue with the KS is that I'm not good enough to paint the miniatures. :P 19 Battle Masters practice miniatures painted, only 80 more to go... EDIT: Hansfree Kickstarter comments. Worth a read. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/831303939/hanfree-ipad-accessory-use-the-ipad-hands-free/comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User EdPugh Posted October 1, 2012 Reaper User Share Posted October 1, 2012 Greetings everyone~ This thread was brought to my attention this morning and since I am the cause of this event it is only appropriate that I address this matter myself. For those who do not know me I am the President here at Reaper. Currently my full time job is planning, organizing and supplying the pieces to fulfill the Kickstarter. As we all already know, in the last 3 days the KS ramped up from an unbelievable 1.5mil and 7,000 people to a staggering 3.5 mil and 17,000. There are worse problems to have, but it has created a logistics nightmare that I am working through. My job is to have everything promised in the KS into everyone's hands during, or before, March 2013. To make this result happen I have already had to make several decisions. Some are simple decisions, like hold everything up for two weeks so a sculptor can send something in that was already past due, or substitute two existing models into the KS and keep everything on track. I chose to keep everything on track. Other decisions were not as easy. Like holding up international orders and consolidating them into one shipment. The reason for this decision was not one of "losing money." For once in Reaper's history that is not the problem, but I do understand the obvious assumption here. The problem at the moment is paint bottles. For the KS we expected to need to produce 100,000. We confirmed the amount was available from the supplier and moved on. The reality is 300,000 bottles of paint are needed and I won't even get the last part of the shipment until Nov 5th. Then it still needs to be produced, pumped, packed etc. AT THE MOMENT the plan is to ship domestic what I have. (First shipment) Then combine first and second shipments for international backers. I am researching shipping figure cases and Sophies for international backers, but I still do not have final data pending the end of the Reaper Pledge Manager period. While I stand by my decisions, I will say I seriously dropped the ball by not keeping everyone abreast of the current situations. My tunnel vision of solving the problems blinded my to the equally important matter of communicating with everyone involved and for that I sincerely apologize to you. Now with all that said I want to add that we are now, and have always been, a customer service oriented company. We have never denied or disputed a credit card transaction when the customer has changed their mind for any reason. If you, GentleGiant, or anyone are not satisfied and want out, please email [email protected] and he will make it happen. Well, I'm going to b*tch about it. It hasn't been mentioned before, Reaper has written updates about about spinning up the paint machines to ship out the paint as quickly as possible, still nothing about international customers not being able to get it shipped at the same time as those in the US at that time either. In fact, it's a change after the products have been paid for (Amazon has already drawn the pledged amount) - so it's a breach of the sales contract, which means that the seller has to eat any extra unforseen costs, at least in my country they have to and I have a suspicion it might be so in the US too. I (or we, as we're a bunch of people who have made one big pledge) have already paid for the product and the information, right up to the point of payment and after, has continuously been that the paint and the Sophie miniature (if one doesn't deselect it) would be shipped in October. That's the service we paid for and bought. We raised 3 million dollars for Reaper, now they have to fulfill the contract of the Kickstarter, which includes shipping paint and Sophie figures now, not in March (unless you elect to wait, voluntarily). We planned to get the paint and start painting other minis while waiting for the big shipment in March. That's why we pledged money for the paint. That's what we want and what was promised all throughout, and after, the entire Kickstart. Sorry Reaper, if it costs you extra money, that's something you should have figured into the Kickstarter. You can't just come here afterwards and change that and say "whoops" - that's utter bullsh*t. We have been exceedingly gracious to you by raising such a huge amount, the least we should be able to expect is for you to honor the deal. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando_the_Technicoloured Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks for the official update (and it takes class to say sorry when you get it wrong, it IS appreciated) I'd never considered paint bottles as a problem, but I guess they're harder to souce than the ingredients, at least in massive quantities I'll stick your post up on some of the forums I frequent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Administrators kit Posted October 1, 2012 Super Administrators Share Posted October 1, 2012 That said I do have a question before I go through the pledge manager. Can I get confirmation that nothing has changed in the way the order will be declared with customs. A Vampire pledge + international shipping + options = the base value of the vampire pledge (100$) and a double vampire will still be 100$ This is what I've been told. Yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleGiant Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks for responding Mr. Pugh! I fully admit that the lack of information has been instrumental in my displeasure. Yes, you did drop the ball. People finding out "accidentally" through the pledge manager and Kit's post in the other thread (don't shoot the messenger!) were not the optimal ways of communicating this and we still lacked a lot of information. I really do appreciate you clearing up a few things, though, and providing some background info as to the decisions you have had to make. That confirms my initial thoughts about you as a company dedicated to caring about your customers. Now, there are still some questions I would like to have answers to or at least know that you've considered. There might be be other suppliers of the paint bottles out there. The downside to this, of course, might be different prices for a one-off batch. From what you wrote above it seems as if the paint to international pledgers might still go out before March, but might be delayed for a month or two until you get more bottles. Is that correct? I can live with that, but when US customers get their part of the deal now, I feel a 6 month delay would be very unfair. I am not in any way interested in cancelling my (and my group's) pledge. We're still salivating over the abundance of cool miniatures we're going to get. We did, however, plan to exchange some of our older, dried up GW paints with the new Reaper paints from the Kickstarter and dive into polishing off our slightly rusty painting skills while waiting for the Bones minis to get here. I hope that's still in the pipeline, even if we have to wait an extra month or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced1106 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Worth a read, especially if you're familiar with Order of the Stick. I think one of the reasons I participated in this KS was that Reaper's president and CFO (?) are also accountants. 5 Kickstarter Projects Slammed With Success Earlier this year, a slew of crowd-funded projects received money that was an order of magnitude more than requested. Such windfalls can turn a dream into a nightmare: They often bury ill-prepared creators and lead to manufacturing delays, lawsuits, defective products, and irate backers. Here are a few projects that got slammed with excess success. http://www.wired.com...82&viewall=true @Giant: How familiar are you with KS? KS is notorious for being "unfair" (I prefer the word,"unaware they exist") to international backers. Here're some BoardGameGeek threads about various international problems -- including a FRENCH game that could only be sold in the USA. Frankly, I was somewhat surprised Reaper would ship international. I also think it would be a logistical nightmare to come up with 200,000 eye dropper bottles without cost overruns and risking failing the March deadline. http://boardgamegeek...-on-kickstarter http://boardgamegeek...ldwide-distribu http://boardgamegeek...ing-kickstarter http://boardgamegeek...tional-shipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingo Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'd like to thank Ed Pugh for a clear and cogent explanation. I was one of those who presumed on what was going on, and I'm sure my misprision contibuted to some members' distress, for which I apologize. I have to admit, I had not considered the possibility of a paint bottle shortage. Whelp, here's hoping things go smoothly from here on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianSt Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'm International, too. Lot of Kickstarter project are not really funny to support from outside the US (especially board games - sometimes you need to pay more for shipping than for the game. I do not really bother anymore to look for board games because they are too expensive for international users [and on top of shipping there is taxes/import stuff]). I really hope this will someday change, but at the moment we must live with it (or move to the US :/). That being said, I have the feeling that the Reaper Kickstarter is really good in regards to shipping cost (with up to 4 Vampires + 4 of each options for over 1000 miniatures, lots of paints and some cases 25$ seems like a bargain). As for contract-stuff and that: I'm hoping I will never need to find out what happens when a Kickstarter project doesn't give me the stuff it promised to me. On the other side: Delivery dates on Kickstarter are often not fulfilled (at least from my experience), especially for projects that overfund. I naturally can't say whether that's the case with Reaper or not, but personally I wouldn't mind waiting longer, as long we are getting informed why stuff get delayed (like the delaying with the RPM due to stress testing). @Reaper: Thanks for all the communication with us! [only thing to add: I'm not sure how many Backers are following the forum, so it would be nice to post such information like the dropper bottle status on Kickstarter EDIT: suppose I should have waited a few minutes - great work!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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