international dont get the paint sets until march?

[TheAuldGrump]

300,000 bottles.

 

300,000 bottles of paint on the wall,

300,000 bottles of paint!

Take one down, brush it around,

299,999 bottles of paint on the wall! 299,999 bottles of paint on the wall,

299,999 bottles of paint!

Take one down, brush it around,

299,998 bottles of paint on the wall!

 

Everybody sing!

 

The Auld Grump

[ced1106]

In the meantime, I've ordered the first four learn to paint kits and I'm hoping this shortage of bottles isn't going to make them unavailable.

 

Did you already place the order? You want to learn Non-Metal Metal (set 4) last. There's a thread somewhere of the best order to learn the kits.

[dispatchdave]

300,000 bottles.

 

300,000 bottles of paint on the wall,

300,000 bottles of paint!

Take one down, brush it around,

299,999 bottles of paint on the wall! 299,999 bottles of paint on the wall,

299,999 bottles of paint!

Take one down, brush it around,

299,998 bottles of paint on the wall!

 

Everybody sing!

 

The Auld Grump

 

Bonus, by the time we're done, it'll be March!

[GregR]

" the plan is to ship domestic what I have. (First shipment) Then combine first and second shipments for international backers"

is gonna be the same in march? domestic first and then international second??

because is like international backers money worth less than the US backers

 

I'll let Reaper answer this, but I'll just say that I would support fulfilling paint/Sophies by order of backer number. Still, there is a significant cost element in two international shipments vs. two domestic shipments. We determined in the comment stream that the shipping costs from the US to various EU points were about 3 times higher than the costs from those same points into the US, though I have no idea why. So that may skew some non-US backer's perspectives over how much it will be costing Reaper. Reaper will get significant discounts for bulk shipping, but there's no way $25 will cover two international shipments of a reasonably sized box. For a random UPS/FedEx customer like me it'd be closer to $100. When the plan was two shipments September and March, there may have been more reason to swallow the double int'l shipment costs, vs. January/March. Anyway, I doubt it's intended as an insult, just a business decision.

[GentleGiant]

Business decision or not (and a bad one from my perspective, since it's not all about numbers, but also customer satisfaction, company image and return customers), that still doesn't help people like me, and some of my friends who have pooled our pledges together, who have other miniatures waiting to be painted now, but we need new/replacement paints to start doing it (I've also read comments on the Kickstarter updates pages from people who are in similar situations).

I put extra money in our pledge because I wanted to buy the paint sets, the paint sets that were promised to go out now, not in March.

So it's actually quite critical to know if they will be shipped out as soon as Reaper get enough bottles (i.e. over the next two months or so) or not until March.

If not until March, then I need to go buy (more expensive) paint elsewhere and I'm left with money in our pledge (which has already been drawn by Amazon) that I might have to spend on more duplicates of minis instead of paint (since by that time I don't need the extra paint). And I have already also put money in our pledge for the extra minis I wanted...

So it's quite crucial that Reaper communicates to us as quickly as possible what their plan is, before the window for the pledge manager closes.

[ced1106]

If you're not satisfied with how Reaper is handling the KS, you can contact them (see their last update) and see if you can get their pledge back.

 

To some extent, international backer money *is* worth less than American. Shipping in America reaches the maximum number of customers for the lowest price and least handling.

 

See this BoardGameGeek thread for the joys of international shipping: http://boardgamegeek...the-bad-and-the

 

Better yet, here're some quotes:

 

"I just went to the post office's website and punched in that I wanted to send a two-and-a-half pound package internationally. It gave me a price of $49.91."

 

"Most countries (from the US) can be reached by International Priority Mail Flat-Rate boxes (and the USPS supplies the boxes for free!)

For example... sizes and prices to most countries (I spot-checked France and Taiwan)

Small - 8-5/8" x 5-3/8" x 1-5/8", maximum weight 4 pounds. $16.95

Medium - 13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8" or 11" x 8-1/2" x 5-1/2", maximum weight 20 pounds. $47.95

Large - 23-11/16" x 11-3/4" x 3" or 12" x 12" x 5-1/2", maximum weight 20 pounds. $60.95"

 

"International shipping takes MASSES more TIME than US shipping as well; customs forms must be filled in by hand and attached to the boxes. Even if you're efficient, that's 5-10 minutes minimum per parcel."

 

"Some of the other points I wanted to address before I saw the quote is that many of the projects that offer lower international shipping do so because they don't know what the cost implications are. I have read many blog posts and case studies in which the project owners received very little of the funding amount after paying many of these expenses because they didn't do their homework.

 

Another point is that everyone forgets that we aren't all from the US, Canada, and the UK. When you offer international shipping, that means you'll be getting pledges from places like Japan, Singapore, and other areas with higher shipping costs. So unfortunately, until Kickstarter provides more flexibility for after-project collections, international backers are subsidizing each other.

 

Many people also focus on the cost to put a stamp on a package. They've forgotten that it takes resources to buy boxes and supplies, package each shipment, double check each shipment is correct, label each shipment, and get each package to the delivery zone. There is an inherent labor cost that comes with distributing hundreds and thousands of packages.

 

Goblins Drool had a very interesting model that we would be interested in seeing if it works. They offered the pledge levels only and when they ship they will tack the shipping on and charge the customer. We worry that people didn't read the fine print and will be upset when they are suddenly charged again to receive their product. If that doesn't happen, I think it could very easily become the most equitable way to handle shipping."

 

Also...

 

"Here are the costs for the books I sampled if they were going to Germany from Vermont:

 

60 page softcover: Priority = $30, First Class = $11.60

100 page softcover: Priority = $32.54, First Class = $14.74

140 page hardcover: Priority = $32.54, First Class = $16.31

320 page softcover: Priority = $36.58, First Class = $21.02

320 page hardcover: Priority = $40.61, First Class = $25.73

 

First Class, right? Probably, but just like media mail in domestic shipping, you can only do First Class International shipping at the post office. The convenience factor is there, however regardless of Priority or First Class you have to go into the post office and interact with a clerk to get international packages off. You can't just have them picked up at your house."

 

"With ebay they have integrated paypal and the US online shipping service to the point that a lot of the tedium is gone. You just print out the prefilled out forms, sign them and then stuff them in a special clear plastic pocket that displays the shipping details. However all of this has to be done manually with a crowdfunding project."

 

http://rpggeek.com/t...costs-and-compl

 

 

Unfortunately, international shipping on KS looks like a small part of the larger problem of shipping among countries. Certainly manufacturers do not want product stuck in customs for an unknown period of time, nor does anyone want countries where packages are almost expected to be "lost" and not delivered to their destination.

[corrinavatan]

If you're not satisfied with how Reaper is handling the KS, you can contact them (see their last update) and see if you can get their pledge back.

 

I think a bit of the problem is the mentality that people had that Kickstarter is a store.

 

I'm sure they had every intention of shipping in September, but guess what? They were asking for 30,000. They got over 3 million.

 

Now, people might not know this, but that's a BIG FREAKING DEAL. From what info I can gather, that's how much revenue that Reaper takes in during an entire YEAR normally. Read: Revenue, not profit, and are a company that employs approximately 20 people.

 

Compare that to Games Workshop, whose last annual report shows $30 million in profits on $209 million in revenue.

 

This is NOT a big company. They are, unfortunately, victims of success, but also of people who think that anything on Kickstarter is a store (note that Kickstarter is changing policies PRECISELY because of issues like these; forcing any project to now have a "Risks" section, and making people realize that no, you might not get EXACTLY what you paid for).

 

Reaper has said that if you're not happy, they will work with you on a refund; they have also said that they have a bottle shortage due to demand and can't ship out to Internationals until March (current plan). I think that's pretty clear communication. If you're international, you might want to think about either waiting, or you're going to have to go through the cancellation process.

[Ampersandrew]

In the meantime, I've ordered the first four learn to paint kits and I'm hoping this shortage of bottles isn't going to make them unavailable.

 

Did you already place the order? You want to learn Non-Metal Metal (set 4) last. There's a thread somewhere of the best order to learn the kits.

 

Yes, I ordered them a couple of days ago. The first from an online shop in the UK, the last three a couple of days later from Reaper themselves. I ordered kit 1 and what I think is the metal version of the bones owlbear, because kit one is fur. I need a big owl bear for my Kingmaker adventure path. ReaperBryan suggested the model over on Paizo's website.

 

I'm hoping that since they still have them in the store, that they're already made up and hence not affected by the bottle shortage. Anyway, we'll see. I put the order for 2, 3 & 4 in on the 28th before the RPM went live.

[kimbers]

" the plan is to ship domestic what I have. (First shipment) Then combine first and second shipments for international backers"

 

 

 

is gonna be the same in march? domestic first and then international second??

 

 

because is like international backers money worth less than the US backers

 

They also need to fill out all that customs paperwork to send international shipments too. The US shipments will probably take less time and effort per package to complete than the international, and would make more sense to do them first.

Although with 15,000 backers, Ed has a lot of work to do in working out how to best organise the frenzy that will take place once everything arrives. While its very exciting I do not envy Reaper. They have a lot of hard work ahead of them.

 

Oh, and I live in Australia, so I expect mine to arrive last.

[badocter]

Contacting customer service directly at this point and trying to work a deal would likely resolve the issue for those that feel strongly about it. Otherwise, working this in the forum creates a lot of churn and assumptions of what might be rather than what is. Direct contact customer service by either email or phone, work a deal, and then post back here as to whether an equitable accomodation was reached for your case.

[buglips*the*goblin]

In the meantime, I've ordered the first four learn to paint kits and I'm hoping this shortage of bottles isn't going to make them unavailable.

 

Did you already place the order? You want to learn Non-Metal Metal (set 4) last. There's a thread somewhere of the best order to learn the kits.

 

Yes, I ordered them a couple of days ago. The first from an online shop in the UK, the last three a couple of days later from Reaper themselves. I ordered kit 1 and what I think is the metal version of the bones owlbear, because kit one is fur. I need a big owl bear for my Kingmaker adventure path. ReaperBryan suggested the model over on Paizo's website.

 

I'm hoping that since they still have them in the store, that they're already made up and hence not affected by the bottle shortage. Anyway, we'll see. I put the order for 2, 3 & 4 in on the 28th before the RPM went live.

 

Non-metallic is kit 3, not kit 4. Basically, just put Non-metallic metal (kit 3) last and you're good to go. Doing kit 5 (demi-metallics) before non-metallic metals is optional - as in you don't have to buy that one in order to be able to do kit 3, but if you already have it then it makes sense to do it before kit 3.

 

You can do Kit 3 right after Kit 2 (originally there were only 3 kits), but then the follow-on kits will feel like a step backwards - so it makes more sense to put the most complicated one last and build up to it.

 

I'm not a Reaper employee, but I suspect that regular orders will take precedence over kickstarter fulfillment if there's a shortage of something. I don't really see any other way they can do it. But that's not official word of anything, just my own opinion.

[GentleGiant]

And I see a lot of people here assuming massive things on "our" behalfs + apparently failing massively at reading comprehension.

And now I'm going to make an assumption and say that they are probably US customers, who won't have a problem getting what they were promised. Funny how that also is reflected in the, at times, very aggressive and insulting comments to the updates on the Kickstarter page itself. Good to know many of you think international clients are just immature "entitlement kids" and what else we've been called.

I've already written that I'm fine with the paint going out over the next couple of months, I just need to know if that's the case before our pledge is locked in in the pledge manager.

Otherwise all I see above are excuses from non-Reaper people on Reaper's behalf. They were overwhelmed? Funny that they had planned stretch goals much further than the final result. Somehow that tells me that they weren't as unprepared as some of you seem to think they were.

Ed Pugh has also said above that it isn't a money issue, so quit using the shipping costs as an excuse. It's an logistics issue over not having enough paint bottles, but they are scrambling to get that fixed and, once again, I'm fine with that if it means that they'll ship paints out as fast as possible.

 

EDIT:

I also wonder if people here honestly think that there would have been no complaints if all US customers had been told the same thing, that their promised September/October shipment of paints and Sophies were going to be postponed to March?

[smokingwreckage]

I'm in Australia and expected everything in March. Look, Like folks have said, however insultingly, Reaper have what, at most 20 employees? They have to bottle up 300,000 paints. I'd bet that March is the earliest you'll see 'em. My suggestion would be:

 

The paint sets are excellent value for money. I don't expect to see a better deal in the next several years, BUT

 

If you need paints right now, cancel. I'm sure Reaper will sort something out for you.

 

In my experience, once you start buying and selling stuff internationally, you realise that Australia is just a long, long way from the rest of the English-speaking world.

 

Anyway, if the deal's gone that sour for you, you can probably just ask for your money back.

[sumbloke]

300,000 bottles.

 

300,000 bottles of paint on the wall,

300,000 bottles of paint!

Take one down, brush it around,

299,999 bottles of paint on the wall! 299,999 bottles of paint on the wall,

299,999 bottles of paint!

Take one down, brush it around,

299,998 bottles of paint on the wall!

 

Everybody sing!

 

The Auld Grump

 

Bonus, by the time we're done, it'll be March!

 

Actually, given I can sing a verse in 8-15 seconds at a normal pace (I'd guess averaging around 11 seconds), you're only looking at 1 to 1.5 months' singing time. Even if you account for 8 hours sleep a night, that only stretches to around 2 months. You should easily be able to finish this year.

[Seamus]

@ced1106, you appear to be forgetting that shipping within the US is not free. The $25 for international shipping was not to cover the whole shipping cost, it was to cover the difference between the cost to ship within the US/Canada and the cost to ship outside the US/Canada. Of course, on larger and heavier boxes that will not cover the entire extra cost, but that's ok because those larger packages have a higher profit per customer so they can afford to absorb some of the shipping cost themselves.

 

@Gentle Giant, if you think some of the comments here are bad, one guy on the BoardGameGeek site actually complained about that last update because there was no "important information" in it, with the implication that it shouldn't have been sent out. My advice is that as long as Reaper themselves are doing right (which in my opinion they appear to be), you should just ignore the xenophobic fans' comments completely. Unfortunately I don't always follow my own advice.