international dont get the paint sets until march?

[Miar]

That said I do have a question before I go through the pledge manager. Can I get confirmation that nothing has changed in the way the order will be declared with customs. A Vampire pledge + international shipping + options = the base value of the vampire pledge (100$) and a double vampire will still be 100$

 

This is what I've been told. Yes.

 

Thanks, the reason I thought of this with the paints being shipped in March is that with the shipments divided I didn't think about customs being an issue at all. With everything in one shipment I'm slightly more concerned about it. Where I am anything under about 125US is not an issue. As long as there has been no change in the way things are being declared there is no problem. Not something I would want to be surprised with in March though.

[Matbar]

GentleGiant, I'm sorry if people called you names elsewhere, but I haven't seen it happen here. I've seen people offer good reasons that you insist are excuses. You made a post that sounds as if you think the non-Reaper people should STFU, yet you keep posting and posting and posting when the REAPER head honcho has offered you direct intervention in the form of a refund. You accuse people of this board of lacking in reading comprehension, when it seems that you are hell bent on believe everyone here is a U.S. citizen who could care less about Canada or any other country. You say it's all about being fair, but what you really keep bringing up again and again is how it's not fair the U.S. people get their stuff before the non-U.S. people. It seems to me that given your continued posting and cleverly worded insults about our reading comprehension instead of simply trying to solve the problem, that what you really want is to be told you got done dirty by the nasty old U.S. of A.

 

Truth is, you've said you went in with friends to reduce your shipping cost and maximize your value. There's nothing wrong with that. But frankly, you milked the Kickstarter as hard as you could, yet you're not willing to accept the downside of this wonderful deal, which is poop happens. They sold LOADS more than they thought they would, delays happen. It's been explained repeatedly that the dates are estimates and you're the only one who has a problem with that. You said at some point you were posting in the hopes that others would complain. They haven't. You say this is about bad business and customer satisfaction. You've been offered an alternative by the president of this company himself, which is more than any human might reasonably expect (in either of our countries) when they're the only complainer out of 17,744 participants. I don't know of any company besides Reaper who would even care given the miniscule percentage that 1 person out of 17,744 represents.

 

I know, you keep saying how easy that is for us to say if we are getting our paints early. But people have said (and I agree) that I wouldn't complain if they filled paints in order of when people backed the pledge. If that's not a logistical nightmare for the good folks at Reaper, I'd be fine with that and consider it more than fair. Solutions have been presented, your opinion has been heard and responded to. Can we please move along?

[GentleGiant]

GentleGiant, I'm sorry if people called you names elsewhere, but I haven't seen it happen here. I've seen people offer good reasons that you insist are excuses. You made a post that sounds as if you think the non-Reaper people should STFU, yet you keep posting and posting and posting when the REAPER head honcho has offered you direct intervention in the form of a refund. You accuse people of this board of lacking in reading comprehension, when it seems that you are hell bent on believe everyone here is a U.S. citizen who could care less about Canada or any other country. You say it's all about being fair, but what you really keep bringing up again and again is how it's not fair the U.S. people get their stuff before the non-U.S. people. It seems to me that given your continued posting and cleverly worded insults about our reading comprehension instead of simply trying to solve the problem, that what you really want is to be told you got done dirty by the nasty old U.S. of A.

1) I haven't been called names here and I haven't said that I have. Have you read the comments to the latest two Kickstarter updates (#69 and #70)?

2) Ed Pugh said that it wasn't a question of money (i.e. shipping costs) holding the paint back, yet people have continued trotting out the shipping links and the "but it's Kickstarter!!!!111oneone!" argument.

3) I haven't told people to STFU, I've asked why anyone would "protest" my inquiries if they aren't affected by them in any way.

4) I've made it clear, several times, that I'm not interested in a refund. Especially as it seems as if a refund means the whole amount and not just what I, and others in my group, had calculated to use on paints. I might be wrong in this, but that's how it reads to me.

I, and the people I pooled together with, are very interested in getting the miniatures and some of us had hoped to get the paints earlier to replace the dried out and old paints we already have.

5) Two "fair" solutions would have been to either a) wait with shipping all of the paints out until all orders (that means all US and international orders) could be fulfilled or b) ship out the paints as fast as possible as Reaper get new bottles. "b" seems to be an option, so that's what I'm hoping for. If not, then I'd like to know, because I need paints "now," not in March, and my already pledged and paid funds would have to be used for other minis and I would then have to go out and buy new paints elsewhere.

6) My accusations of lack of reading comprehension is because of the above, where what I and others have written, has been ignored by other posters (not by Reaper).

7) I have absolutely nothing against the US (well, some of your politicians are... troublesome ). So no, you're mistaken if you think this is anything of the sort.

 

Truth is, you've said you went in with friends to reduce your shipping cost and maximize your value. There's nothing wrong with that. But frankly, you milked the Kickstarter as hard as you could, yet you're not willing to accept the downside of this wonderful deal, which is poop happens. They sold LOADS more than they thought they would, delays happen. It's been explained repeatedly that the dates are estimates and you're the only one who has a problem with that. You said at some point you were posting in the hopes that others would complain. They haven't. You say this is about bad business and customer satisfaction. You've been offered an alternative by the president of this company himself, which is more than any human might reasonably expect (in either of our countries) when they're the only complainer out of 17,744 participants. I don't know of any company besides Reaper who would even care given the miniscule percentage that 1 person out of 17,744 represents.

Truth is, I didn't have the money for an entire Vampire pledge + extras (including paint) myself and neither did several of my friends. Hence why we pooled our money together. Two of them have bought seperate Vampire pledges + some extras because they could afford so. So I'd hardly say that we're milking anything.

"Delays happen" - yes, they do and I wouldn't have begrudged the big shipment of miniatures being postponed for a month or two more next year. But part of the deal was getting the paints earlier, which is why I put extra money into the pledge. Money I would have used on paint from elsewhere if they had said that it wouldn't be shipped until March, along with the rest of the miniatures.

And I'm the only one who have a problem with this? No, I'm not. Clearly you haven't read the comments to the two updates mentioned above, heck, others in this thread has complained (just not as vigorously as I have).

Are there international pledgers who are fine with getting the paints in March? Yes, yes there are! Good for them! They are in another situation than I am in. Is that so difficult to understand?

Also, with that many participants, the odds are that more people are unhappy with it. Some just don't think they can do anything about it, others aren't sure what they can to, others have already voiced their displeasure elsewhere and I'm posting here.

What you are doing seems to attempt to silence me and/or dismiss my concern as not worthy of consideration and that I should be super special extraordinary happy that it actually has been addressed to a degree.

And just because you don't know of other companies who might do that, doesn't mean that they don't exist. I can point you to Paizo as a shining example of how wrong you are in that assertion.

 

I know, you keep saying how easy that is for us to say if we are getting our paints early. But people have said (and I agree) that I wouldn't complain if they filled paints in order of when people backed the pledge. If that's not a logistical nightmare for the good folks at Reaper, I'd be fine with that and consider it more than fair. Solutions have been presented, your opinion has been heard and responded to. Can we please move along?

Good on you that you're satisfied with the situation, does that give you the right to tell me what to do?

And I can't move along until I know what to put down in the pledge manager, which closes this week, that's the whole point at this time!

You might have the discretionary income to not care, but I don't.

[smokingwreckage]

a) wait with shipping all of the paints out until all orders (that means all US and international orders) could be fulfilled or

 

Probably mostly logistics there. All the US stuff could conceivably be sent out at once. International stuff is going to have to be country-by-country. See how angry you are now? Right. Now, most of their customers (and most of the people on earth with English as their first language) are in the US. Assuming all customers are of equal value, and all ire is of equal value, Reaper can't tick them off to please you, or you plus me, or you plus me plus every single international customer they have.

 

In other words, your solution is not, on analysis, fair or ethical. It imposes more suffering than the default, assuming that your suffering is real and could statistically be suffered with roughly equal probability and intensity by any randomly selected customer.

 

b) ship out the paints as fast as possible as Reaper get new bottles.

 

That'd be a logistical nightmare. Still, they might do it. Maybe. On balance I'd expect it to be a non-starter. Make up a batch of green! Mail green to everyone who ordered it! Make up a batch of that odd pale lime! Mail it out to everyone who ordered it! Start processing panicked emails from customers who ordered a whole set, dammit, not just one bottle, and that one bottle sure as heck isn't worth $16, and Reaper will be hearing from my lawyer if this isn't sorted pronto! Make up a batch of black! etc., etc., etc.

 

Once again, their entire US contingent get their paints later than they would have; see above for my brief assessment of the ethics of that. In addition everyone who receives one pot of paint in the mail and wonders what the heck is going on will also suffer anxiety, irritation, crankiness and/or panic attacks. How is that fair?

 

Now, in the second case, if Reaper can somehow manufacture paint by the set then that changes the calculation. But I deem it unlikely. Hey, maybe they'll send you some paints early, gratis. Nice for you, but not really fair, per se.

[psyberwolfe1]

@GentleGiant Nope it's not fair, but life isn't. First, if you're in the Euro Zone can you tell me who will sell you €30,00 worth of 12 bottles of paint for €14,00? (That's just a straight money conversion, and if you're in another area of the world I'll happily do the conversion for there too.) My guess is no one. Also getting it all at once will be amazing for you because Reaper will state the value of the contained products as $100. Instead of paying customs twice, you’ll pay it once. Little consolation for you, but it is a positive effect here.

 

Second, you’re right. You get to complain, but we also get to ask you to quit complaining because this is a public forum. You have been given the options of wait or full refund. Those are your choices. You don't have to like them, but belly-aching about them won't change them. I’m not trying to silence your dissent, but this is something you can’t change. So why are you continuing with the complaint? All it is doing is alienating you from a pretty good online community and making yourself out of sorts. I’m sure you have better things to do then typing on the internet about the unfairness of life, which you can’t change.

 

Finally, avail yourself of the resources here. You will find centuries worth of experience here. You’ll be pointed to gigabytes of tutorials. Yes your discretionary funds might be tight, but so are ours. Many of us “hobby” on shoe string budgets and have learned how to make do. You should take advantage of that.

 

Yup! It stinks that your expectations were delayed. Instead of being upset by it, take a deep breath and move on with life. The super successful KickStarter campaigns run into problems because they must now figure out how not to be victims of their success. For starters, perhaps you could lower your expectations. I’m not surprised that I won’t get my Sophie until later in October/November and I’ll be completely surprised if I get my figures in March. The fact that they are communicating with the community about delays and such actually is giving me confidence that they are working with all haste to deliver the promised goods. Oh there is a delay? Okay when will it be delivered? I know a lot more people will be upset when US customs hangs the delivery of the Bones up, and that is yet again something we have no control over.

[Qwyksilver]

I'll be happy if I can pick my toys up at Reapercon.

 

Reaper has had buzzards luck with items hung up in US customs. Maybe they anticipated this and actually have the product scheduled to arrive in early February

 

Like when you tell the aunt that always shows up an hour late that dinner is at 1pm when everyone else arrives at 2pm. Yeah Zia Maria...I mean you.

[Slendertroll]

And I can't move along until I know what to put down in the pledge manager, which closes this week, that's the whole point at this time!

You might have the discretionary income to not care, but I don't.

If this is really your only issue, then you can let it go with this: you won't get them until March. The Reaper folks have been pretty clear that they're sending everything to their international backers in one go. They've even given a number of reasons for this. So unless you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, you have no further need to argue.

[Matbar]

GentleGiant,

 

I don’t know how to do the fancy boxy quotes, so let me just say everything below in italics comes straight from one of your posts.

 

From your most recent post:

 

1) I haven't been called names here and I haven't said that I have. Have you read the comments to the latest two Kickstarter updates (#69 and #70)?

 

Nope I haven’t read that because I’m not interested in a name calling fest. I’m talking to you about comments you’ve previously made in this very thread. What I’m referring to comes from an earlier post by you:

 

And I see a lot of people here assuming massive things on "our" behalfs + apparently failing massively at reading comprehension. And now I'm going to make an assumption and say that they are probably US customers, who won't have a problem getting what they were promised. Funny how that also is reflected in the, at times, very aggressive and insulting comments to the updates on the Kickstarter page itself. Good to know many of you think international clients are just immature "entitlement kids" and what else we've been called.

 

If the bold part of this statement refers to some mysterious “many of you” that aren’t on this board, then to whom are you referring? Anyone who is a U.S. customer? If there is another explanation for this comment, I’d be glad to hear it. Put another way, exactly who is “you” in this statement, and why is it on this board instead of Kickstarter updates 69 & 70 if it’s not addressed to posters here?

 

I won’t even get into the irony of the don’t assume/I assume part of this statement. You can figure that out for yourself I’m sure.

 

*******************

 

I could, but I don't think anything is going to happen unless other international customers also chime in, so I'm primarily making my case here.

 

This was your comment in response to a polite suggestion that you should speak directly to someone in the company to resolve the issue, but seriously, you made your case 4 posts ago. You’ve been proven wrong in that they did respond despite a miniscule number of complaints. I went back and reread to see if anyone other than yourself had NOT withdrawn their complaint. I found one, and it was only a mild statement that he/she felt Canadian money was being treated as less than American money. The whole 2 or 3 other persons who registered complaints in this thread said they were cool now that the company had shared information. So 2-5 dissatisfied people out of 17K. I apologize for my previous erroneous statement that you were the only upset person.

 

 

*******************

 

I also don't see why US customers should be "against" us (international customers) getting the products at the same time as them. It won't affect them at all, so any argument against it would be because of...? What?

 

EDIT:

I also wonder if people here honestly think that there would have been no complaints if all US customers had been told the same thing, that their promised September/October shipment of paints and Sophies were going to be postponed to March?

 

I don’t think you had a problem with the U.S. It’s just that repeatedly bringing up comments like the one about US customers being against you makes it seem the other way around. As if you think this is about the U.S not liking Canada (or Australia, or Japan, or insert country here) If this is not the case, then putting those statements into your posts is misleading.

 

If you’re truly upset because you feel the U.S. backers are being treated better, why no comment on this from Ed Pugh’s post?

 

AT THE MOMENT the plan is to ship domestic what I have. (First shipment) Then combine first and second shipments for international backers. I am researching shipping figure cases and Sophies for international backers, but I still do not have final data pending the end of the Reaper Pledge Manager period.

 

Sounds to me like his is investigating letting YOU guys have your cases early while WE wait for ours. So if your only concern is “Mom likes you best” I should think this addresses it. Personally I’d rather get my cases now and send you my paints, but I’m betting that won’t happen and I don’t plan to spend a lot of time upset about it. All I can say is I hope this is able to become a reality so that all the nice international backers do get something cool. And that’s not sarcasm.

 

*******************

 

I'd hardly say that we're milking anything.

 

If you prefer the phrase “maximizing the efficiency of the Kickstarter format” we’ll go with that instead of milking. Also please note I said there’s nothing wrong with it. It is, however, unrealistic to take advantage of all the pluses and then make a monstrous issue out of the one minus. When you get the advantage of the Kickstarter, you get the disadvantages too. Would I be unhappy if none of my stuff came until March? Moderately so, but I’d deal with it. The word “estimated” tells me that this might happen. I accepted that as a possibility when I clicked the pledge button.

 

Ed Pugh said that it wasn't a question of money (i.e. shipping costs) holding the paint back, yet people have continued trotting out the shipping links and the "but it's Kickstarter!!!!111oneone!" argument.

No, “but its Kickstarter” is in response to your insistence that you were promised something at a particular point and time, which you were not. See above comments on “estimated” and button clicking.

 

*******************

 

You might have the discretionary income to not care, but I don't.

 

I’m sorry but I laughed out loud at this. You’re citing income when you’ve just spent money on a bunch of minis, paints, and maybe cases? Really? If you’re that broke, wait and don’t buy any other paints. Or take the refund. I know you said you don’t want a full refund, fine. But claiming financial limitations to lend weight to this part of your argument is a very interesting method of getting your point across. When they come doesn’t change the amount you’ve pledged by a single penny.

 

*******************

 

“If not, then I'd like to know, because I need paints "now," not in March, and my already pledged and paid funds would have to be used for other minis and I would then have to go out and buy new paints elsewhere.”

 

Despite the fact everyone here loves paints and minis, nobody actually NEEDS them. I seriously doubt you’re going to do without food and a place to live if you buy more paints, and if you are then you should probably just wait until March and get all of your stuff then. I’m pretty sure it won’t kill you, or even hurt you in any real way. The possession of a new bottle of paint is not necessary to the continued existence of you and yours.

 

*******************

 

What you are doing seems to attempt to silence me and/or dismiss my concern as not worthy of consideration and that I should be super special extraordinary happy that it actually has been addressed to a degree.

Nope, not trying to silence you, chat away. Last I checked, we both live in free countries. Which means you’re free to complain, and I’m free to call it what it appears to be. Ad it really does look like you are doing this simply for the sake of complaining.

 

I didn’t say (nor imply) your concern was unworthy of consideration. I said it’s been considered. You act as if it hasn’t been. You are WAY in the minority, and overly melodramatic about a few bottles of paint.

 

Nope, you don’t have to be happy, but I don’t know why you’d choose to continue being miserable, which is probably what will continue to happen if you harp on details here instead of making a decision based on the information you have and letting it go. Chances are you’re sitting there thinking “yeah that’s easy for you to say, I bet you wouldn’t be so blasé if it was something you wanted” but if you don’t believe me, go read the Bombshell Kickstarter thread.

 

I wasn’t terribly pleased they moved the Cavegirl to the bottom of the Bombshell babes, I said I was sad about it but that oh well, I was clearly in the minority if those figs got voted in last. Another poster came along and said they never promised she was next. I felt the way it was done on their KS homepage was slightly misleading, and that was the end of it. I could argue that the previous order on that Kickstarter implied that this would be the next figure opened and make a big fuss that I was tricked into pledging under false pretenses, but it’s really rather pointless. When it comes down to it, I pledged to help a smaller company start a cool line with the understanding I’d get something, and that hopefully it would be what I want, when I want. If that company were based in Canada and they said “oopsies, we only have enough to fill half the orders, we’re sending the ones closest to home first” then I’d deal with it.

[Seamus]

a) wait with shipping all of the paints out until all orders (that means all US and international orders) could be fulfilled or

 

Right. Now, most of their customers .... are in the US.

Out of curiosity, what's your source for that statistic? Not that I think delaying all shipping is a good idea, but since your rebuttal argument is based on this assertion I'd be interested to know if it has any factual basis.

Given that Reaper has said¹ that a) they can send out the North American orders with the 100,000 bottles they have, and b) they require a further 200,000 bottles to fulfill the international part of the order, I would suggest that there appear to be twice as many international customers as North American (USA and Canada).

 

b) ship out the paints as fast as possible as Reaper get new bottles.

 

(cutting the bit where you demonstrate that you missed the point)

 

Now, in the second case, if Reaper can somehow manufacture paint by the set then that changes the calculation. But I deem it unlikely. Hey, maybe they'll send you some paints early, gratis. Nice for you, but not really fair, per se.

They are getting the bottles in a batch or batches of 100,000 bottles (I suspect these were being worked on since the KS started), followed by an undisclosed number of batches to total 200,000 bottles to be received by November 5th². These may be two batches of 100,000 each, four batches of 50,000 each, or any other way of making up those numbers. You can be sure however that they are not going to be receiving all of them at once at the start of November³. I believe GentleGiants suggestion is that, when Reaper receive a shipment of (say) 10,000 bottles, they use that to fulfill the next 500 or so orders of paint.

 

I don't really intend to take sides on this, but if you don't think his suggestion is a good one and you wish to argue with it, at least argue with his suggestion instead of trying to ridicule it.

 

1) This is based on the fact that North American customers can elect to have their product shipped now, and that 100,000 was the expected number of bottles to be required as stated in Ed Pugh's post.

2) Stated in same post.

3) Inferred from the use of the phrase 'the last part of the shipment' in same post.

 

Second, you’re right. You get to complain, but we also get to ask you to quit complaining because this is a public forum. You have been given the options of wait or full refund. Those are your choices. You don't have to like them, but belly-aching about them won't change them.

We have a saying where I come from "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". Basically it means that nothings going to change if you don't complain, but if you complain, things just might improve.

That said, I do think he'd be better served by contacting someone at Reaper directly via PM or email.

[GentleGiant]

Slendertroll and Matbar,

I don't know how else I can make it clear to you. I've clarified what my situation is regarding filling out the pledge manager several times. I don't think repeating it will make it any clearer.

 

Also, if you don't like to read my posts here and think that I'm just complaining for the sake of complaining (which I'm not and I'll just leave it at that), feel free to not read them at any time.

[buglips*the*goblin]

Am I gonna have to let loose some Cyndi Lauper in this thread? Now you kids relax or nobody gets any ice cream.

[psyberwolfe1]

Oh I'll throw down regardless of whatever music you put on Buglips. I have zero shame.

[dwarvenranger]

Sunny days, keeping the clouds away...

[Matbar]

You gimme mah ice cream or I'll send you the video for Willow's Smith's "I whip my hair" travesty. Pistachio please.

[recruittons]

@Matbar: Could I have some too? Pistachio as well. I have "Facebook Official" by Heart2Heart queued up and ready to fire at whichever target you call.