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I feel a disturbance in the force


captenglish
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I am not optimistic.

 

Paramount owns Star Trek. Paramount regards Star Trek as a cash cow. Therefore, nothing interesting, controversial, or remotely disturbing will ever be done with Star Trek.

 

Therefore, you're going to need a hell of a writer to tell an interesting story, and even then, everything will have to be reset to Status Quo by the end of any given movie or TV episode. And if you ask me, this is one of the things that killed Star Trek as a TV franchise. What can you DO with something that you aren't really allowed to stretch the boundaries on? By the time the last series was on the air, it was sterile as a family hour sitcom.

 

And now, Disney has the license to print its own money in the Star Wars Money Mill! This is peachy for Disney, in the short run. But you'll notice that Pixar made a point of staying more or less autonomous as far as story and content went. It wanted to tell strong stories, not dippy licensed Disney Channel crap.

 

If they get a decent Star Wars Czar, put him in charge, and leave him the heck alone, we might get decent Star Wars. But I foresee a future where Luke Skywalker wouldn't have had his hand lopped off, Darth Vader would have escaped at the end, Darth Maul wouldn't have been bisected (and last I heard, they even brought him back from THAT one)... and nobody ever dies, suffers, or undergoes character development again....

 

This is by far the most intelligent, and fair, analysis on this topic I've read all day. Bravo.

 

While I choose to be optimistic I mostly 'got over' Star Wars some time last year. All of the Old Republic era crap turned it into kiddy garbage. What I want to see is gritty, rated R, violent, humanly realistic Star Wars. Tits, gore, drug abuse. We need Quinton Tarantino to direct that one. I don't care what any of you say: nobody in the universe, beside the Jedi, is THAT well adjusted. the galaxy is utterly TEAMING with blaster-wielding Honey Boo-Boos and its time to organize a hunting party to go splatter them all.

 

seriously.

 

do i need to dig up some classic Dennis Leary and do a Star Wars remix on it? cuz I will.

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Could be awesome..or it could be.......

gangnam-style-star-wars-parody-gif.gif

 

really really bad!

 

I just don't know if you can continue on with these iconic characters without doing a restart like the new star trek did.(which was awesome)

but if they twilight it up for the young crowd..I'll cry

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PS: My favorite Disney Princess is Leia.

Mine too! ;). But just think of the (also Disney owned) Marvel Crossovers? Obi-Wan a member of the New avengers? Ahsoka Tano in avengers Academy? Han Solo Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D? Darth vader Leader of the Masters of evil? Oh the Fun we could have ;) But I think i am also one of the few People on the Internet who openly confesses his love for Clone Wars :D
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I just don't know if you can continue on with these iconic characters without doing a restart like the new star trek did.(which was awesome)

 

Was it? I was too busy being interrogated with a strong light in my eyes. ::P:

 

Anyway, look, here's the deal so we're clear: I'm long past the nerd rage/argue on the internet stage of life. It only leads to heart disease and ulcers. People can like whatever they like and it's all cool, baby.

 

But . . . but . . . it is a special kind of ironic horror for me to be a fan of the things that are now big in pop culture, which creates a vast buffet made for my tastes . . . only to find it stocked with Whedon and Abrams - whose projects I have loathed since the beginning of their careers. I've never liked anything, not a single thing, they've done.

 

This is less enraging to me now than it is curious. Anybody remember the story The Monkey's Paw? That's what pop culture is for me now. It should be everything I've ever wished for, but it's all crossed with this black shadow of hideous irony.

 

But the only part of it that really bugs me is The Avengers - and that's because I signed up enthusiastically to that in the beginning, watched all my doubts disappear with each subsequent movie, and then at the end I got Whedonized. It was like being on the end of a particularly cruel and elaborate prank.

 

So . . . well, if you like this stuff, then awesome. This is your time. This is made for you, so you should enjoy it.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to check to see if the Amish welcome outsiders as new members. :lol:

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Now, that said from my nerd consumer view, here is my view as a content creator.

 

There is a tendency, among the consumer public, to assume that the people who create the content understand the content. This is, actually, very rarely true. Most people have no idea, at all, what will be popular and what will not - and if something you do does strike gold it's by no means assured that you know what elements involved did the trick. So all you can do is go back to the well, do what you know how to do, and see what happens.

 

This happened to George Lucas. He didn't lose his touch, or turn evil, or anything. He just doesn't understand what happened with Star Wars. Remember, nobody among the Hollywood Wise Men of the time thought it would do well. Even Lucas wrote it off.

 

Now when you come into a project thinking it will fail, and instead it becomes this huge phenomenon, what the heck are you supposed to do with it? And then people want more, so you decide they should have it.

 

But George Lucas did not make Star Wars. George Lucas's team at the time made Star Wars. It didn't all spawn fully-formed from the wellspring of genius. It was a long process of refinement in the face of adversity, and he got lucky because he cobbled together a team of young, crazy experimenters and talent. All of that combined made Star Wars.

 

When he came back to it, he didn't have that team anymore. He had a new team, largely made up of people who, over the years, had accepted the idea of Lucas as myth and legend. That means the prequels were created under almost exactly the opposite environment of the first trilogy - and without the talented team of surgeons to fix things up.

 

George Lucas made the prequels exactly the same way he made the originals, and got universally loathed for it. He probably doesn't know what happened. He did it exactly the same way, but it didn't work. Now those of us on the outside can point to this, and that, and monday morning quarterback the whole thing - but if we look at it from Lucas's view there was nothing in place to tell him Jar-Jar was a bad idea. In fact, every instinct he'd learned told him the opposite: Jar-Jar is risky, but risky is what got me here. Everybody poo-poo'd it before, too, and I was right. I'll be right again.

 

I don't like the prequels, and I had my moments of nerd rage, but in the end people tore down their idol and drove him out from doing what he loved, what he'd spent his whole life doing, when all he tried to do was please them.

 

That's wrong, and people (myself included) should be ashamed to have done that.

 

Fans suck. As much as I might criticize projects, I loathe fans a million times worse. Fans are why we can't have nice things.

 

Soon, very soon, I will be sending something out into the world. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and what it means to me as either failure or success. I think the former is the easier of the two to live with. The latter will mean fans (and money, which is nice, but nothing worthwhile is ever done for the money). I expect that some people will champion me, and some will denounce me, and I don't really care one way or the other.

 

I can't. You'd go nuts trying to figure it out, or figure out a way to please everybody. There is no way to know what you do that will succeed, and what you do that people will hate. There's especially no way to control it. Not how it works, that's the hell of creation.

 

In order to do any decent work, you have to know deep in your heart that fans are irrelevant. You can't say this, not out loud, because they'll turn on you like a pack of wolves. But they are, and they'll never understand that it has to be that way - because all the best work that gets you fans comes before you have any fans, and therein lies the truth of the process.

 

So, while as a consumer I don't like Whedon and Abrams, I don't begrudge them their success. People just like what they're cooking in this time and age, and it could just as easily have turned out the opposite. It's a fickle line of work. I don't like it, and I don't have to like it. But, I love Christopher Nolan's work so it's not like I'm faced with a wasteland populated by skin-eating cult zombies.

 

I just understand what this world is like now. I know that in two years I might be The Next Big Thing, and it's entirely possible that people on here who know my secret identity will tell their friends "I know that guy!" That happened to me when one of my friends took a chance on writing a mystery and wound up a bestseller with a bunch of awards.

 

It's also entirely possible I might find myself written off as a horrible hack, a total failure who never should have tried in the first place, and I'll drown forgotten and loathed in a sea of cheap booze and ramen noodles in a cockroach-infested dive.

 

That's what makes it an adventure, and nobody knows what's written til it's written. The same people who would greet my success as pre-ordained fact (I always knew you'd make it) are the same people who will turn around if it fails and tell me that was pre-ordained and they saw it coming.

 

*shrug*

 

And that's why none of it matters, and all nerd rage is for nought. Nobody has any clue how this stuff works, and they're lying if they say they do.

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What gets my goat about Whedon and Abrams (ironically) are exactly the same things that get my goat about Lucas. If anything, that only makes me more crazy. Whedon's writing/directing is equally craptastic, and Abrams's writing/directing is also equally craptastic.

 

From a purely technical point of view, devoid of questions of taste, there is no difference between them.

 

But two are hailed; one reviled.

 

In any case, getting to your salient question, Whedon is too cheesy. I don't mind cheesy, but I like to be a little less on the nose. The Avengers was like watching something made not by a fan, but by a haughty auteur who thought he was too good for the material, that what you liked was silly childish garbage, and then set out to prove it.

 

I didn't just dislike The Avengers, I was actively offended by it. And that's Whedon's style. Maybe some people like it, and they'll say it's tongue in cheek, and we like it because he doesn't take it seriously - but to me that's just lazy and insulting to my intelligence.

 

I wasn't expecting The Avengers to be clever art, but I was expecting whoever they put at the helm of the ultimate culmination of the great experiment to at least have enough respect for the whole endeavour to reign himself in and try to do a proper job. The way I see it, he didn't. The way I see it, what he did to that franchise is equally as horrible as what Lucas did to his - but Whedon got laurels and Lucas got the nerd rage.

 

*shrug*

 

I mean, what can you say? Doesn't make sense, it's never made sense, and 35 years ago some typewriter schmuck looked at Star Wars and said exactly what I'm saying today.

 

The beat goes on.

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Huh. I never got that vibe from The Avengers. I thought Whedon seemed at home with it in a way he really wasn't with Serenity, which I liked, but it had that whole "holy crap this isn't a TV series what do I do what do I do?" vibe. I thought that what he did well was take a bunch of guys who all really need their own movie, and split up their screen time and "COOL!" moments very smoothly and without really showing his hand. That is, to my mind, tremendously hard to do, but I'm no screenwriter.

 

I guess to my mind it's better to go for slightly cheesy, bright lights superheroes and nail it than to go for gritty and edgy and totally bollox it (Wolverine). Any superhero movie is going to be tough because superheroes are inherently silly and Marvel comics, while I love them, holy crap. Silly multiplied by soap opera and simmered in 30+ years of contradictory and sometimes absurd in-fiction history.

 

That said, I have no defence for Abrams. I quite like Fringe, but found Lost to be boring, ridiculous and about 1/20th as smart as many imagined.

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I think the test is, how did people feel, walking out of the theatre? People walked out of The Avengers pretty excited. I'd see a sequel in a split second. The Star Wars Prequels, I just think a lot of people found them not especially fun. But for The Avengers people were fresh from the various related hero movies, whereas for Star Wars what they remembered was how awesome, frightening, dramatic, etc., Star Wars original was to a kid.

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Huh. I never got that vibe from The Avengers. I thought Whedon seemed at home with it in a way he really wasn't with Serenity, which I liked, but it had that whole "holy crap this isn't a TV series what do I do what do I do?" vibe. I thought that what he did well was take a bunch of guys who all really need their own movie, and split up their screen time and "COOL!" moments very smoothly and without really showing his hand. That is, to my mind, tremendously hard to do, but I'm no screenwriter.

 

I guess to my mind it's better to go for slightly cheesy, bright lights superheroes and nail it than to go for gritty and edgy and totally bollox it (Wolverine). Any superhero movie is going to be tough because superheroes are inherently silly and Marvel comics, while I love them, holy crap. Silly multiplied by soap opera and simmered in 30+ years of contradictory and sometimes absurd in-fiction history.

 

That said, I have no defence for Abrams. I quite like Fringe, but found Lost to be boring, ridiculous and about 1/20th as smart as many imagined.

 

And that's a great reply because it illustrates why there's no such thing as consensus when people talk about content: the princess and the pea effect.

 

This is when the elements of what you like are different from the ones you don't; and that whole package is individualized and very different from the one I bring. My opinion on the character use is exactly the opposite: I thought they were horribly mismanaged and it was really Iron Man 2.5 with some special guest stars.

 

See? Same movie, we're both to some shared degree fans of the source material, polar opposite opinions.

 

And Whedon's style may be liked by others, or they may be ambivalent, and then to me that pea in the mattress is like having my eyeballs sandpapered. And it's all equally valid because that equation is not most influenced by the maker, that's mostly consumer-side. What you bring into something dictates what you get out of it.

 

Some people assume that what they bring in is better than what somebody else did, but I just think what we bring is different. I mean, there's probably all kinds of crazy crap I like that would make people go "huh? what is wrong with you?"

 

So long as there's a diversity of selection, I'm cool with it. And, in any event, I am pleased that the Avengers Experiment was attempted, and was successful, even if I don't care much for the end-cap.

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I think the test is, how did people feel, walking out of the theatre? People walked out of The Avengers pretty excited. I'd see a sequel in a split second. The Star Wars Prequels, I just think a lot of people found them not especially fun. But for The Avengers people were fresh from the various related hero movies, whereas for Star Wars what they remembered was how awesome, frightening, dramatic, etc., Star Wars original was to a kid.

 

Oh, see, now here my experience with the two was exactly the same.

 

By virtue of geographic location, I was in the first theatre group to see TPM on opening night. I was on the leading edge, first showing.

 

And people walked out of that saying it was fantastic, that they'd loved it, and man I can't wait to see this again.

 

I, on the other hand, said nothing. Inside I wondered if they'd all secretly gone nuts, or been replaced by pod people, because that movie was craptacular. But nobody else seemed to notice! NOBODY! All the nerd rage we know came later, months later. Not a bit of that was present that first showing in North America.

 

And with The Avengers, my experience was identical. It was like having a flashback. Everybody's coming out loving it, I'm wondering why I'm the only one* who thought it was terrible.

 

 

* the difference, however, is that with Avengers my friend who had been equally excited going in was equally disappointed coming out. So at least this time I wasn't alone.

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