DeepWars Mini-Kicker

[MonkeySloth]

The 2 week long deepwars KS has started.

 

http://www.kickstart...yss-mini-kicker

 

Wonder if the OP can retitle this thread to be Shadowseas\deepwars as there's no real reason to start a new thread.

[vulture]

im back in - we have already unlocked a new fig, and are very close to the second!

[Shakandara]

I'm back in as well. The actually suits my needs more than the ShadowSea project did; I backed DeepWars as a curiosity initially, and never really bought in to the factions. This is a great opportunity for me to pick them up. And, hopefully, this will help reinforce things for ShadowSea later.

 

~v

[vulture]

yeah, its actually pretty cool to flesh out the factions a bit more. i had initially bought in to deepwars as a curiosity as well - i love Shadowsea and the idea of underwater fights was intriguing. now i am fully hooked on the idea. ive been hunting for underwater minis to use now, and found loads. on the must buy list: reapers aquatic familiars, sharks, Goroloths, the kraken, and the bones deep dwellers. the fact that Deepwars can handle custom models is a big plus.

[MonkeySloth]

I have to admit I like the look of the shadow seas stuff more and that's part of the reason I went with the deepwars kickstarter last spring, though the concept of underwater combat also intrigued me. I'm currently in for only $12 at the moment as I really need to think about what I need\want from the non-stretch goals.

[Dan d'Lyon]

I'm just not sold on the pricing aspect of this KS. Of course, I've only backed 2 projects and ended up with TONS of stretch goals that added in for free. Now, I'm not saying this should be structured the same. It just seems that the add-on pricing is designed to increase profit rather than break even. Just my opinion, but since KS is supposed to be about getting the funds to launch something (at least more quickly than would otherwise be possible), that the focus should be more about getting people to invest in the first place so you can make those bigger profits later. Am I off base here?

[Shakandara]

From what I've seen, everything they've offered as add-ons has been at discounted prices, anywhere from 10-20%. As a small company offering free shipping, this pretty much seems right on target. If you are expecting a Bones-like deal, it's just not going to happen with a smaller producer like this.

 

~v

[ApesAmongUs]

Speaking of the pricing, I can't really tell what is in the starter sets. They have pictures of 7-8 different minis (for individual order) and then a picture of the box which seems to only have 5 pictures on the cover. I'm assuming the sets are just 5, but I'm not certain (and even less certain in the instances where the box art can't be seen as clearly).

 

I know there are several that I want, but I can't really tell if it's worth buying the starters, as I don't know if the individual ones I really want are in there or not.

[Shakandara]

Yes, the starters have the 5 pictured on the box art. You can go to their website and click on the starter sets in the web store; it tells you exactly what is in each box.

 

~v

[MonkeySloth]

Starters only have 5 minis, with one being a larger mini, and so what you see on the cover image is what you're getting. The sculptors did a good job keeping the minis looking like the art so it should be easy, however several of us here have the starters so feel free to ask about them if you still have questions.

 

I'm just not sold on the pricing aspect of this KS.

 

Their last KS caused them to go into the Red because of extras and many, many other kicstaters do because people have the express notion that you should be getting free stuff with these things--I've found that when small companies I don't really want lots of free stuff because I've seen so many loose a lot of money doing it. The $2k between the stretch goals is what it costs them to have sculpted a mini, masters made and molds.

[Dan d'Lyon]

_{No, I'm not expecting a Bones-like deal. But since company's generally sell to distributors at a 60% discount off retail, then I'd have expected them to reach a little deeper to really get some interest going for their products. I don't know what kind of cut KS takes though, so maybe it is more reasonable than I've been thinking. But really, for a 10 to 20% discount from retail I can just wait and pick it up through my FLGS. Like to support them whenever I can anyway.}

[MonkeySloth]

That's a fair, but I really have no problem with people making money off a Kickstarter, but I can see no desire to rush in and spend a ton if you don't think the price is right. I wasn't happy when I first saw this pricing method with Blackwater but I've realized that this is just an evolution with KSers in this hobby.

[Orlando_the_Technicoloured]

_{No, I'm not expecting a Bones-like deal. But since company's generally sell to distributors at a 60% discount off retail, then I'd have expected them to reach a little deeper to really get some interest going for their products. I don't know what kind of cut KS takes though, so maybe it is more reasonable than I've been thinking. But really, for a 10 to 20% discount from retail I can just wait and pick it up through my FLGS. Like to support them whenever I can anyway.}

 

This massive discount is why many small companies can't afford to get into the distribution chain, if they do they end up with zero profits (although maybe a higher profile if their stuff takes off). They're stuck with direct sales as the only way to go

 

(I buy from quite a few of these)

 

So I don't begrude small companies keeping their eye on the finances during a KS.

 

If you really like the figures buy in, if you're more 'those could be nice' it probably makes sense to wait and see if they show up locally (or online)

[Shakandara]

Comparing a KS discounts to distributor pricing is folly. Let me show you why.

 

To reach their first goal, they needed $2000.The most backed pledge level right now is $135. To reach $2000, they'd need 15 backer at that level. Each of those pledges include 2 starters sets (~ retail value $105), 4 additional miniatures of your choice (these range from as little as $8 to as much as $13 retail value for a 30mm base size, so we'll save average value is $10 each, for ~$40 retail), a softcover book ($30), and a PDF of the rules ($15). That's a total retail value of $190. It is pretty safe to assume that they need 50% of that ($95) just to cover their production costs. Amazon and Kickstarter take ~10% off the top, so of each $135 pledge, they get only $121. After deduction of the production costs for the rewards, and $5 for the "free" shipping backers receive, Antimatter gets about $21 per backer as working capital. Multiply that by the 15 backers it took to reach $2000, and they have $315. The average professionally sculpted 28mm heroic scale model runs about $500.

 

Yup, that's right, not enough to even get that first goal sculpted, let alone pay for artwork, master and production molds, etc.

 

Maybe you think getting additional product at a 10-20% discount while helping a small company produce more miniatures for their game isn't worth it. I'll respectfully disagree.

 

~v

Edited November 21, 2012 by Shakandara

[Dan d'Lyon]

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you are being rather generous on your production costs since retail "value" really doesn't have anything to do with production costs. Realistically, the pdf costs $0 at this point. But I won't exascerbate this discussion any further. I just don't think this KS is a good value for my money so I'll just look elsewhere and evaluate these some other time.