Domination Clarification.

[joshuaslater]

When the rules state that the model is affected as if it had activated, does that mean it counts as having indeed been activated?

 

Ombur cast Domination on an Elf Ranger, and the Ranger charged Prince Danithal and attacked. The Prince took no defensive swings.

 

Now when the Ranger's unit activates, does the Ranger that was dominated get to activate with his troop, or are all his actions done for the turn?

 

My brain is aching from my Reven's first victory. Over some wussy Elves.

[Shakandara]

No, it does not prevent the model from acting. However, there are some spells and model states that persist until the next time the model activates. A Domination spell would cause the expiration of such effects.

 

~v

[joshuaslater]

So this spell can be cast on an already activated model? I'm used to other game engines where the Dominated model loses its' actions to the player that cast the spell.

 

 

[Shakandara]

Ok, let me backtrack a bit on my last statement, and bear in mind that I was not looking at a copy of book when answering. Here is the relevant text from the spell Domination:

 

"Spellcaster takes control of the target model, forcing it to immediately take two Actions as if the controlled model had Activated. The Spellcaster's Troop may not take or declare any Actions until this dominated model's Actions are complete. These Actions resolve independently from the rest of the Spellcaster's Troop. If the controlled model attacks another model, the defending model may choose whether to perform Defensive Strikes. This cannot be used to force a Spellcaster to cast a spell, nor can it force a model to perform an action that would directly result in it taking damage or being destroyed (e.g., entering a Molten Earth or Wall of Fire, or using an SA like Martyr)."

 

Note that this does not say that the model has Activated, just that it takes two immediate Actions, just as it would as if it were the model's turn in a normal Activation. Whether the targeted model has already Activated or not is irrelevant. This would also mean that my previous statement regarding model states and spell effects does not apply; since the model does not Activate as part of the result of this spell, there would be no effect on such states or effects.

 

My apologies for any confusion; I should have looked up the spell before replying the first time.

 

~v

[joshuaslater]

I'll play it that way, but it seems wonky to me. It seems like the model gets four actions in that turn like it's sped up. As Domination is a five point spell, I would think it played differently.

[Dilvish the Deliverer]

Here's another question. Reading the spell desciption, it appears that the intent is to cast the spell on an enemy model, however it doesn't specifically say that. So could you cast it on one of your own models and effctively get another two actions out of it? Reading the text is would be legal, however I think it violates the intent.

[Stubbdog]

No, you cannot cast it on a friendly model since it is classified as an attack spell and in the rules there is a section that specifically says you cannot target a friendly model with an attack spell.

[Dilvish the Deliverer]

Good to note. In that case it seems fairly balanced. Yes the model effectively gets 4 activations in a round (2 of it's own and 2 dominated), but it would be even worse if it lost is own actions due to dominate.

[Shakandara]

I'll play it that way, but it seems wonky to me. It seems like the model gets four actions in that turn like it's sped up. As Domination is a five point spell, I would think it played differently.

 

Yeah, Jason's point pretty much tells you why it is not imbalanced, and also why he mechanic isn't wonky.

 

~v

Edited December 20, 2012 by Shakandara

[joshuaslater]

I'll play it as you guys say. My issue isn't with balance. It's with time. I know it's a fantasy wargame, with flying monsters and magic, but it's easier to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the game where some things are rooted in more realism. I'm used to the Chronopia mechanic where the Dominate spell can only be cast on an unactivated model that hasn't gone yet, and then uses its' actions under domination. Apples and Oranges.

 

The game plays really well, I just find some of it a bit hokey. Indirect shot looks really strange when you look at the arc the arrow would have to take over a building to hit the model. The balance isn't the issue, as it isn't a dealbreaker, but the feel of it is.....??

 

Defensive shots are another feely issue for me. It's not a dealbreaker, and the balance isn't an issue, but it feels strange. It really means that an archer gets more shooting actions in a turn if he or she is being shot at, but otherwise just gets their usual number of RAV attacks. I guess I'd reload faster if an arrow came at me too.

 

All in all, I'm not complaining. I'm enjoying the game immensely as it is, and learning more every time I post a question.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2012 by joshuaslater

[Shakandara]

It's really little different than getting more melee swings because you are attacked in multiple activations.

 

~v

[joshuaslater]

It's really little different than getting more melee swings because you are attacked in multiple activations.

 

~v

Dig. It's all part of the game. It takes some getting used to coming from other games. Some people don't like the mutual death thing either, but it's part of the game. We actually find it refreshing!!

 

As always, thanks Shak for helping a brother out. I'm drawing up more lists on the Army Creator on reapergames now......

[Shakandara]

Sure thing. I think the key to remember is that Warlord is not meant to represent a real-time, blow-by-blow game. There is a fair amount of the game that has been abstracted for the sake of smoother play. The activation/initiative system is one of those things.

 

~v