Hells_Clown Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 In an earlier post I grumbled about not quite understanding how to highlight things. It occured to me just today that the problem I have is highlighting/shading flat surfaces. With a cloak for instance, when there are folds, one highlights the raised parts and shades the recesses. Same with muscles, highlight the big bulging parts, shade the parts in between. But with flat surfaces, like a shoulder pad or a slender thigh...well there's nothing sticking out to highlight. Nothing deep to shadow. It's all the same depth. Sooooo...what, oh might paint gurus (bowing low), is the secret? How does one show depth on a surface which has none? I yearn for an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogle Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Well, AFAIK, you do the same thing, you build a highlight. - Do your basecoat - then pick a lightsource to match the others - put in a lighter colour where the light would flow down the surface and keep doing this until you have built the appearance of a 3d surface. ie this.... please ignore the crappy graphics, but it should give you the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mengu Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 It depends on where you decide your light source is. Usually it's overhead, and you pick whether you want it to the right or left of the figure. For most nonmetallic surfaces, the closer to the light source, the brighter your colors will be. For metallic surfaces, it is important to look at the angle of the surface to decide whether it is reflecting the light source or the surrounding area. If it's reflecting the light source, you might get a reflection as described nicely by Coogle. If it's the surroundings that are reflected, then you have choices. I know this doesn't help much, but when in doubt, try to create a real life example of what you are trying to accomplish, and examine what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheprera Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Actually, I'd love more input on this. I've been wracking my brain because Neferu's headdress never did look the way I wanted it to. Topless but look at the freehand on the headdress... I did the stripes, but then couldn't figure out for the life of me how to get the proper highlighting to give the smooth nemes depth. Highly irritating, and I think this is what HC is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital M@ Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Coogle that is a nice demonstration of 2d to 3d build up. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enchantra Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 This sounds like a job for.... *drum roll* Super Anne and Super Jen! Coogle, nice job on the graphics there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errex Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I did the stripes, but then couldn't figure out for the life of me how to get the proper highlighting to give the smooth nemes depth. What do tou mean by depht?, Like it was engraved or something?. Anyways, maybe the side shot is no the best I'd use for this but here goes: What I see of the headdress, looking from her back, is basically a spherical smooth surface.As such, I would have painted it pretty much the same as a Space Marine shoulder pad, that is, placing the highlight at the very top and do a smooth gradient being darker towards the bottom. Once I had the blue-spherical-thingie effect rigth where I want it, then I'd paint the golden stripes, placing the higlights on those pretty much to accentuate the curvature of the headdress. I'd say, that most flat surfaces, excluding fleshy thighs, can be done with gradients or blends, or, if you feel lucky, doing some freehanding. Fleshy thighs are indeed tricky, at least for minis that don't have exagerate muscles. Shadows and highlights need not be as dramatically different as in other parst of the body (wich sometimes leads to a pretty uninteresting look when painted, hence the utility in pasting some tattoowork on them), but need to convey a sense of roundness. Browsing through magazines with long legged models usually provides enough info on how to convey such effect (although it is a very distracting research work). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenova Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I'd say, that most flat surfaces, excluding fleshy thighs, can be done with gradients or blends, or, if you feel lucky, doing some freehanding. I agree... that's the way I do it. 1. Pick a light source 2. Decide where the lightest point is 3. Blend towards that with lighter and lighter colours Voila! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Things like a space marine shoulder pad or the head dress still have a shape, so they aren't really flat to me. I try to imagine how light reflects of a curved surface and the direction of light. I may or may not succeed as intended. ;) However, what a bout a truly flat surface. Suppose you mini is standing on a flat, smooth floor. Other than trying to create shadows caused by the light source hitting the figure, like a person's actual shadow, how do you hightlight those large areas that are completely flat and smoothing? Imagine trying to paint just a floor, perhaps smooth stone or marble. Any advice? I can imagine what I think it should look like if there was one light source who's direct focal point hit the floor, and the expandind, yet diminishing glow from it. Not sure if I can paint that, but I can imagine it. What about when there is more than one light source. Indoors, where you might have an illuminated room from lights at various spots. Hmm. Perhaps I will keep all my minis outdoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errex Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Flat floor. Well, I'll just paint it grey or brown, and add minimal highlights to the very edges of the bricks/planks/whatever. For something a bit more elaborate, I'd go for some texturing like granite or marble, but, not much besides that. My previous post was in reference more to smooth surfaces than to truly flat ones, but I think it does work either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogle Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 This sounds like a job for....*drum roll* Super Anne and Super Jen! Coogle, nice job on the graphics there. I agree super Jen and Super Anne! Oh, and ya for MS Paint, still a usefull program! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintrix Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Pfff...I do just what everyone else here has previously mentioned. Pick an arbitrary part to highlight. Sometimes you can choose depending on the relative effects produced by highlighting top down/in the center/at the edges/etc.; one may look better than others due to how highlights are placed on surrounding areas. I'll try to dig up an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 5, 2003 Reaper User Share Posted December 5, 2003 Heya HC! As others have implied, the answer to your question lies in the subject of overhead lighting technique, which lately I've heard people referring to as "zenith lighting" painting technique (why do people always have to rename things and confuse the issue?). It does, indeed, lie in determining the direction of your light source relative to the mini, and applying the strongest highlight to the part of the surface that would be closest to the light. Most miniatures painted with this technique (my own among them, I am a sucker for overhead lighting...) are done with the assumption that the light is coming from a diffused overhead source, i.e. sunlight at noon or close to it. When you start introducing a light source that isn't overhead, then you start running into tricky situations. Reproducing a sunset (sun angled low), a spotlight, a torch in a sconce, moonglow, etc., you would again draw lines in your head from the imagined light source to the mini and the strongest highlight would go on the surfaces closest to the light. You would also have to make allowances for the light being different in color than noon sunlight. Likewise with two different light sources--the brightest would predominate, but surfaces oriented on a direct plane next to the secondary light source would show some coloration from that source. In reality, this topic is a very complex one, and entire books have been written on it (unfortunately they're hard to get in the U.S...). I couldn't possibly summarize everything in this email, or even in this discussion topic. Now, if you were to step up and say, "Hey Anne, I'm painting a mini standing in a dark dungeon with a torch in his left hand and a glowing blue sword in his right", *then* I might be able to tackle it! <grin> I will try to find an example of a shoulderpad or something that might help with the general overhead concept, though. :) --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells_Clown Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 When you start introducing a light source that isn't overhead, then you start running into tricky situations. Reproducing a sunset (sun angled low), a spotlight, a torch in a sconce, moonglow, etc., you would again draw lines in your head from the imagined light source to the mini and the strongest highlight would go on the surfaces closest to the light. You would also have to make allowances for the light being different in color than noon sunlight. Likewise with two different light sources--the brightest would predominate, but surfaces oriented on a direct plane next to the secondary light source would show some coloration from that source. In reality, this topic is a very complex one, and entire books have been written on it (unfortunately they're hard to get in the U.S...). I couldn't possibly summarize everything in this email, or even in this discussion topic. Now, if you were to step up and say, "Hey Anne, I'm painting a mini standing in a dark dungeon with a torch in his left hand and a glowing blue sword in his right", *then* I might be able to tackle it! <grin> I will try to find an example of a shoulderpad or something that might help with the general overhead concept, though. :) --Anne Nah, nothing has complex as all that. I'm currently working on Lorielle the elf archer babe. The biggest problem I'm having it detailing her left gauntlet and the flat areas of her chest plate (the breast area isn't too bad, again a raised area gets highlighted, etc) where the straps are, etc. From the pic in the showcase area I see the fold on the side o the glove is highlighed. I didn't even notice that on my figure! I'll have to go back n check. It doesn't help that there's a lot of white on my version and I've prolly painted it all too pale so will have to go back and darken it up a bit and rehighlight it Of course anytime you wanna provide examples I certainly wouldn't mind checking them out. Though based on past examples I'm still unable to draw some of your (going into Dr Evil mode) "mojo" and duplicate what I see in the pics (harkening back to the highlighted metallics thread). But I persevere and march on. Thanks all for the advice, keep it comming. Someday maybe it'll make sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 5, 2003 Reaper User Share Posted December 5, 2003 I imagine the tutorials section will provide a little more help. Though, really, I think you should just come down to Texas on a Sunday and come to my local painting group meeting so I can spend ten hours showing you in person what I mean when I say this or that! <grin> Apart from that, I'll keep trying to make my examples and pictures clearer, and you keep experimenting, and hopefully one day we'll meet halfway. --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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