Delayed Drake KS

[MonkeySloth]

If people start seeing progress then attitudes will change. I've still got this one as not delivering but if, for example, I see some masters a few months from now I can move it over to maybe 50%-50%.

[Beagle]

If people start seeing progress then attitudes will change. I've still got this one as not delivering but if, for example, I see some masters a few months from now I can move it over to maybe 50%-50%.

Well let's hope.

[Shogun]

50/50 damm! I hope it's more then that. If Mick from Efs can deliver (which I isn't the case for myself) then surely benji can

[Maledrakh]

I take we all have seen the latest update from AGM.

I posted this in the KS comment section to said update, some other we're lauding AGMs transparency...

 

Hello fellow backers, time for a reality check:

I am in both of these kickstarters for rather hefty sums. I belive transparency on the part of AGM does not seem to be entirely the case. I found this update to be rather out of the blue, and checked a bit around,

I would like to direct the backers attention to the following posts on the AGM forum:

http://actiongamesminiatures.com/forum/drake-group2/general-drake-discussion-forum20/enthusiasm-dropping-steadily-thread164.2#postid-1517

Please note this was posted the day BEFORE this update.

So there we have it.

I do belive Benji is /was at all times fully intending to deliver and wants to make this work. I further do not believe he is fraudulent or trying to con anyone. I do believe he is hanging on for dear life as this house of cards collapses around him, and this project now has a very low chance of being delivered.

I still hope for the best, I really like the Drake concept, and several of the wave 1 minis. It is too bad it has come to this, and I am afraid we will have to write this one off. Kickstartering is a risky business.

[SamuraiJack]

I've chalked this up as a learning experience and hope that eventually we'll see the rest. Honestly I've gotten most of the minis I cared about in the first wave. I was probably going to unload a lot of remaining stuff in the end. Thankfully I took the issues with ks1 into account with ks2.

[Beagle]

It's been dead for ages. The launch of Drake 2 was a good indication that they were in trouble.

[Maledrakh]

Yeah, there were quite a few red flags waiving for that one. I am sorry to say I let my enthusiasm for the minis get the better of me.

[MonkeySloth]

I'm not in the camp of the guy on their forum saying random stuff, he just seams to be pulling figures out of the air, but considering the lack of communication I'm chalking this up as a loss until I see more commitment from Benji. 

 

If there appears to be a change over the next few weeks I'll reconsider doing a charge back for KS2, not sure about KS1 as I got about 80% of my order and most of the stuff I haven't gotten were freebee's so--in all honesty--I probably got my moneys worth and it might be more hassle then it would be worth the get the $50 or so of the KS1 pledge I haven't gotten yet if I have to itemize stuff.

 

As for backing KS2--he gave the same argument that Mierce gives (needing to keep\book artists) and he had done a large wave of shipping (again, almost everything from my order) so I don't feel like I was duped into backing KS2 as, at the time, he was being pretty good with communication about the progress of everything in KS1.

Edited September 29, 2014 by MonkeySloth

[Maledrakh]

At the time of KS 2, there were much better level of comminications, yes. But still, there were also warning signs I certainly chose to ignore. I dont blame anyone else but myself for backing this. KS is after all about funding a dream/project and placing trust. It is not a preorder system, as some people seem to treat it as. There is always a risk that it will fail. I do not belive Benji or anyone at AGM has tried to defraud their backers, rather this is about incompetence. Running a business is not for everyone.

 

I am not so sure the "dream is over"-poster is some random guy pulling figures out if the air, this has more like the taste of a disgruntled ex-employee after the last paycheck bounced. There seems to be a lot of inside info in those posts, and more importantly they did lead to Benji making that last update where he "came clean", which in many ways validated a lot of what was written.

 

Remember that in the previous update sent only a day earlier, he wrote "While the designers design" and continued to use the plural "us" and "we" about AGM. Misleading us to think there is a much higher level of activity than obviously actually is the case. I am quite sure Benji is not a crook in any way, but is does seem he is in way over his head.

Also of note is the fact that this update only went out to KS 1 backers, not KS2.

 

One essential item to consider is that with the employees going, most of the hard won know-how has probably gone with them. And who actually does the designwork on the minis? I seem to remember Benji saying that it is not him in one of the updates. If he is all alone and is not the design talent, how on earth can this proceed now that the money has admittedly run out?

 

If he does have a shelf full of moulds, all the nescessary equipment and both raw resin and metal, what is the reason they are not actively being used to cast stuff up to fulfill the KS? Might it be there are not any other items than what was the first wave?

 

I am not going to go all pitchforks and lynchmob and demand refunds that AGM obviously is not in any state to give, but I would like a proper, detailed and exact state of affairs declaration, and by that I also mean exactly which minis are possible to deliver as of now, or can be cast up in the forseeable future. Are there even any miniatures ready that were not in wave 1 at all? if so, I would like to be given the opportunity to pay for shipping so I at least may get those minis in hand asap.

 

As a backer, I also am an investor of sorts. Therefore I also think that it is only proper for us to be kept informed.

 

Is there any real hope at all that this project as a whole can be salvaged? Is there any hope at all to salvage even some of it? Is there a foreclosure looming that will take everything with it down the drain?

[Beagle]

Good post. I agree with all of that

[MonkeySloth]

Well we know that that Benji has a partner, so the us statement isn't really false, also--assuming he has the money--he could still be paying for outsourced designers.

 

As for the Dream is Over, you're correct that it's probably someone who use to be related to AGM (or knew someone that was) but there are a lot of odd things about his/her post that seam off that make me think part of it is hearsay or being made up.

Edited September 30, 2014 by MonkeySloth

[Serpine]

In all three of the companies I've worked we were encouraged / trained to use the plural when possible even when only one person was on a particular project. It makes the client feel more important and causes less confusion if their project gets reassigned. Benji could also just be in that sort of habit.

[SIGIL]

....Looking at the various pledge levels and the amount of product promised the varying cost per figure in their campaign they were walking a very fine line from the very beginning. There never was a lot of profit to be made even if they outsourced production and everything went fine ( which they did not and it never does ). The shipping costs were also very tight as well if they only shipped once and if the shipping costs were all relatively similar. The first postal increase came after the close of the first KS. They partially shipped a lot of stuff just before KS2 began and had to reship a lot of those packages. Those two items alone were BIG problems. Add to that they had to buy equipment, hire help ( and they hired many more people than were neccessary in my opinion. ), buy materials, rent a space to work in, furnish that space, get the lights on, heat the space, print the physical masters and have them shipped from Texas to Vancouver ( hopefully by a secure method ) and then after all of that..................................................... learn how to produce miniatures.

 

  In my opinion. This was crazy from the very beginning. I do not mean that in a way of saying that it was visionary. I mean it was very naive and irresponsible and reckless.

 

  Drake is the ultimate example of a dreamer's project. The people behind the project did not seem to really have a firm grasp of how to actually make these things happen and appear to have no real, measureable, working plan of action to save it from total failure. They really wanted it to happen. I know that, I know how it feels as I have been there myself, but wanting it to happen is not the same as making it happen. They made a commit to MAKE it happen by taking money beyond their original target goal and then running a second KS to further expand their dream project, effectively kickstarting their first project a second time by using items from KS1 as stretch goals and rewards in KS2 no less. They really did not know what they were getting themselves into with KS1 but they did know what they were getting themselves into with KS2.

 

  Projects like this drain money and goodwill from the audience upon whom other creators who CAN deliver on their promises depend to make a living for their families. I have watched too many of these project go up, talk a GREAT game, make a litany of promises, take a ton of money, go kaput and then throw up their hands and say " Sorry yall! hah hah! I really SO had no idea what I was doing here. I really wanted to make this happen but it looks like I can't. All the money is gone now too so no chance of refunds either!  Cheers!!"

 

  I am not calling for the torches and pitchforks here. It is my hope that this example and a few others that are fairly obvious, will at least get people to be a bit more judicious in whom they place their trust and in what promises they choose to believe. There are good, honest, hardworking people in the industry with long established track records for delivery and performance whose products sit on a shelf while the promises of competitors with no product and no track record ( or even questionable records ) rake in literally 100's of thousands of dollars on KS every month. Buy what you like from whom you like but please please at least look a little more closely at the product you are told you are getting and the ability or reputation of the person claiming to be able of producing it.

 

  It is true that there are also people who have never had a hand in the industry who are also honest and hard working and do understand the ways and means of making things happen through KS. These projects are usually very obvious as well as they usually do not make incredible promises and take the progress of the campaign as it comes rather than trying to gin up 100's of thousands. 

 

  I am not impugning anyone's honour or honesty or ability here based on whether or not they have an established reputation for performance and delivery there are perfectly honest honourable people who just don;t know what they are getting themselves into, make some really bad mistakes get swept up int he excitement and then have no idea or way possible to deliver upon those promises. I am sure that Benji and company never once intended to rip anyone off and still want to desperately to deliver but they appear to be going about it the entirely wrong way if they retain the ability to deliver at all at this point.

 Everybody wants to make as much money as they are able but the honest and able person knows what their limitations are and works within them.

 

  Ultimately accountability on kickstarter begins and ends with the backers. KS has no liability and neither does the creator as per the terms of use. There is no legal contract between KS and creator and the " contract " between creator and backer is NOT what most people think it is. Look at the industry prior to the KS craze for what is and is not realistically possible. There are certain immutable realities about management and production and shipping. Adding more money to the mix really does not change any of those.

Edited September 30, 2014 by SIGIL

[Orlando_the_Technicoloured]

There's also at least the potential that they'll be able to get back some (if not all) of the money from their landlord in the 'illegal' office debacle.... which depending how much was involved could be a significant boost to help get stuff out

[Beagle]

There's also at least the potential that they'll be able to get back some (if not all) of the money from their landlord in the 'illegal' office debacle.... which depending how much was involved could be a significant boost to help get stuff out

It's dead I tell ya. I'd bet my mortgage and yours Orlando, on seeing no more Drake miniatures produced. Benji is reluctant to say it's all done for obvious reasons.