No Bones yet.

[Unruly]

But I still don't understand why these shipments are different than any other shipment made by Reaper. Surely to <deity> if this is the process then these fees might be levied on run-of-the-mill purchases as well...so what's new?

 

The massive number of shipments going across the border at the same time is what makes this different. A shipment here and there is likely to squeeze through, and a small box with a few minis and paint bottles isn't likely to get assessed at much higher than what you actually paid for it if they do get selected for closer inspection. In the case of the Bones Kickstarter, you've got a bigger box than most normal orders and it's being declared at only $100. That's 250 minis, minimum, that normally would cost an average of about $2 each. Add in some of the bigger pieces and orders that include a bunch of addons, all being declared at the same $100, and you've got a lot of room for customs to interpret their own value for each order. But when you've got over 1000 packages(just guessing based on the size of the Kickstarter, but I figure there's at least 1000) going across the border in a short period of time you're a whole lot more likely to have packages get selected for that closer inspection.

 

So all of that is what makes the Kickstarter different.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Unruly

[ShadowRaven]

Well of course we can't quote him on 1000 a day. I suspect that was purely vampire boxes. Add Mr Bones, tag it and on the pallet it went. After that was done I have no doubt the number per day dropped faster then Buglips pouncing a partha paint pile. So less than 1000, more than 100. By my calculation, we should all have our miniatures in...round the 10, divide by 0... Oh, before the sun goes nova.

[buglips*the*goblin]

I was unaware the sum would be substantial, so that clears things up a bit. I was also unaware that customs could assess the value of a shipment on its own whim, although I guess that prevents people from declaring all shipments to be worth a dollar, and that clears things up further. I will happily wait to avoid shelling an additional $50+ on my $150 order.

 

But I still don't understand why these shipments are different than any other shipment made by Reaper. Surely to <deity> if this is the process then these fees might be levied on run-of-the-mill purchases as well...so what's new?

 

 

Specifically, outside of what's mentioned above (and this was also mentioned above) is that Reaper told us at pledge time that we'd get free shipping. When I order stuff I also get free shipping, but that's different from Kickstarter. Kickstarter isn't quite the same as a regular commercial trade. So when I buy $150 worth of stuff on here and get free shipping (USPS) then I know and expect there's a chance I'll owe taxes on it.

 

With UPS, even if there are no taxes, you get charged a brokerage fee just for the thing crossing the border period. And that means that people would get their stuff at their door and - surprise! - you owe UPS $20+ to get your stuff.

 

"But Reaper said Free Shipping!"

 

Pay up or no Bones.

 

 

Now just take a minute, multiply that by 1,000 times or more, and just imagine the hue and cry that would spontaneously erupt.

 

Yeah.

 

So this is a different circumstance, and while you or I might say "I'll pay, just gimme the Bones!" it's just not feasible for Reaper to single out certain individual orders and cobble them up. It's a waste of time and delays other stuff. So to do that for some, they'd have to do it for the whole shipment - and then we have the horde of angry Canadians again.

 

Now a case could be made that they should've just stuck to the original RAFM plan. In hindsight, I'd tend to agree. But, when Reaper decided to do this UPS thing it looked like a much better solution and was fixed to wind up getting us our stuff a lot faster.

 

Life is messy, things happen. So we'll just have to sit back and wait. There's no other way to get our stuff faster except to do that.

Edited May 6, 2013 by buglips*the*goblin

[Suden]

The part about which I'm most curious is whether Reaper is doing the application themselves or if UPS 'helpfully' offered to do it for them. This situation makes me think that UPS got its nose out of joint after being called on the massive, surprise brokerage fees and then stuck said nose in where it didn't belong.

I'm actually registered as an importer as a result of something I brought over the border for a former employer and it took all of about fifteen minutes. In fact, I stood in line to get to the computer station longer than I actually spent doing the paperwork. As much as we like to make fun of government bureaucracy, the process just isn't that onerous.

I just can't shake the feeling that UPS is gumming up the works to its own ends here.

I have a hard time seeing past my hatred for UPS, but it definitely looks like they are responsible for this mess. Reaper had posted that Canadian shipping was sorted. It was going to RAFM, then being shipped domestically to Canadian backers. Then, Reaper posted that UPS had a last minute suggestion to do things differently. And by last minute I mean they told us after shipping had already begun. Now, six weeks later, no Canadian orders. I don't like it, and I hope it gets sorted out, but I remember at the time saying anything to do with UPS and Canada was a bad idea.

 

Here is a quote from Reaperbryan on the topic at the time, posted March 28th, as far as I know the last official word on Canadian shipping:

 

"We are working on details that would define us as an import broker, and responsible for our own fees. We'd bulk ship to ourselves in canada, pay our fees, and the UPS would pick up there and deliver.

 

If it doesn't work that way, we will let people know. If it does, there will be an update to Canadian backers notifying them what to expect.

 

We had not even realized this was an option until our UPS agent approached us last week, and so we're still working on it.

 

Our goal is to make sure that you receive your parcels with both minimum delays and minimum fuss, and ideally zero unexpected fees."

[bojesphob]

Once you add anything to the basic vampire set the box probably goes up a size. A extra set of storm giants or an set of the optional mind your manors are the same approximate size so the distinction seems strange. The distinction makes perfect sense in the idea that all the minis in the vampire sets where done and shipped first then the additional mini options are arriving later. Maybe they are all sitting in containers around the warehouse but they should have shipped the pure vampire sets way earlier instead of having them sit around the warehouse for a month waiting on what?

 

End of the day we can complain all we want but they already have our money so they know as long as we like the minis when we do finally get them then we will forget the slow delivery by the time we think we are done with these 240 minis and need more.

 

I do not think that a daily counter and weekly few line update is to much to ask.

 

For Example:

Shipped: 9235 of 18000 Orders

Currently Shipping: Vampire+Vampire Extras+Paint Sets+Cases

 

Takes about 10 seconds.

 

Nymerias has it right. The only issue with this is that if someone saw 9235 orders out of 18000 shipped by day 10, then said, "well, that means they are shipping around 923 orders a day". They get into the larger orders, and all of a sudden, they only had 53 sent out in one day and only take the total up to 9288, because of the added complexity and the changeover of boxes and such. All of a sudden, you have 8712 people upset because they didn't send out 923 on that day. Also, that 10 seconds that you mention is only the time that it takes POST a message about it, that's not including the amount of time it takes to actually calculate how many were done. Even if they are doing scans or punching in numbers, somebody has to sit down and actually go through and determine what was sent out or what was boxed up, and that takes time as well. As much as I'd love to know where I am on the list to get stuff, I'd rather them take that extra time to figure out where I am at and actually just get it sent out quicker. If them not updating us every day telling us where they are means I get my pledge 3 days sooner, then I'd rather not make them update me. Considering there's somebody on the kickstarter bashing the minis already, you know there are going to be people who flip out because as the complexity ramps up, the shipping slows down. Of course, for some reason, the person who was complaining about the material for the minis on the kickstarter comments appears to me to sound like a plant from another company attempting to make people second guess their Bones purchase (it just seemed way too scripted of a rant).

[Pingo]

Considering there's somebody on the kickstarter bashing the minis already, you know there are going to be people who flip out because as the complexity ramps up, the shipping slows down. Of course, for some reason, the person who was complaining about the material for the minis on the kickstarter comments appears to me to sound like a plant from another company attempting to make people second guess their Bones purchase (it just seemed way too scripted of a rant).

I don't see any reason to assume industrial espionage. That person is unhappy with Bones. It may be due to actual experience, it may be something else. So far they have been the only one complaining, as far as I can tell, and their complaints don't seem to jibe with others' experiences. But they don't have to be in the pocket of a rival company in order to vent.

[BroadwayG]

 

 

Nymerias has it right. The only issue with this is that if someone saw 9235 orders out of 18000 shipped by day 10, then said, "well, that means they are shipping around 923 orders a day". They get into the larger orders, and all of a sudden, they only had 53 sent out in one day and only take the total up to 9288, because of the added complexity and the changeover of boxes and such. All of a sudden, you have 8712 people upset because they didn't send out 923 on that day. Also, that 10 seconds that you mention is only the time that it takes POST a message about it, that's not including the amount of time it takes to actually calculate how many were done. Even if they are doing scans or punching in numbers, somebody has to sit down and actually go through and determine what was sent out or what was boxed up, and that takes time as well. As much as I'd love to know where I am on the list to get stuff, I'd rather them take that extra time to figure out where I am at and actually just get it sent out quicker. If them not updating us every day telling us where they are means I get my pledge 3 days sooner, then I'd rather not make them update me. Considering there's somebody on the kickstarter bashing the minis already, you know there are going to be people who flip out because as the complexity ramps up, the shipping slows down. Of course, for some reason, the person who was complaining about the material for the minis on the kickstarter comments appears to me to sound like a plant from another company attempting to make people second guess their Bones purchase (it just seemed way too scripted of a rant).

 

I'd take any message at this point. Even a 'Hey we're still plugging away, stick with us.' There has been a big zippedy doo dah since the con. Pretty disheartening.

[buglips*the*goblin]

That particular person can't be pleased anyway. I tried on the previous complaint posted, with information on how to solve the issues - and not only did I share a negative opinion of Bones in the beginning, but I have dedicated my efforts towards solving the very issues presented (notice the mention of skeletons?)

 

Apparently I don't know anything because I haven't had my hands on them yet.

 

Who knew? All this time I've been working with imaginary skeletons.

 

Anyway, I predicted we'd have a few like that - which is one reason I was at pains to suggest that where possible the Bones version of something should be displayed and not the metal version (I mentioned this when Yephima was revealed painted). At least that way nobody could claim with even remote legitimacy that they were misled.

[SamuraiJack]

That person seems to have Veruca Salt entitlement issues

[eriochrome]

 

Once you add anything to the basic vampire set the box probably goes up a size. A extra set of storm giants or an set of the optional mind your manors are the same approximate size so the distinction seems strange. The distinction makes perfect sense in the idea that all the minis in the vampire sets where done and shipped first then the additional mini options are arriving later. Maybe they are all sitting in containers around the warehouse but they should have shipped the pure vampire sets way earlier instead of having them sit around the warehouse for a month waiting on what?

 

End of the day we can complain all we want but they already have our money so they know as long as we like the minis when we do finally get them then we will forget the slow delivery by the time we think we are done with these 240 minis and need more.

 

I do not think that a daily counter and weekly few line update is to much to ask.

 

For Example:

Shipped: 9235 of 18000 Orders

Currently Shipping: Vampire+Vampire Extras+Paint Sets+Cases

 

Takes about 10 seconds.

 

Nymerias has it right. The only issue with this is that if someone saw 9235 orders out of 18000 shipped by day 10, then said, "well, that means they are shipping around 923 orders a day". They get into the larger orders, and all of a sudden, they only had 53 sent out in one day and only take the total up to 9288, because of the added complexity and the changeover of boxes and such. All of a sudden, you have 8712 people upset because they didn't send out 923 on that day. Also, that 10 seconds that you mention is only the time that it takes POST a message about it, that's not including the amount of time it takes to actually calculate how many were done. Even if they are doing scans or punching in numbers, somebody has to sit down and actually go through and determine what was sent out or what was boxed up, and that takes time as well. As much as I'd love to know where I am on the list to get stuff, I'd rather them take that extra time to figure out where I am at and actually just get it sent out quicker. If them not updating us every day telling us where they are means I get my pledge 3 days sooner, then I'd rather not make them update me. Considering there's somebody on the kickstarter bashing the minis already, you know there are going to be people who flip out because as the complexity ramps up, the shipping slows down. Of course, for some reason, the person who was complaining about the material for the minis on the kickstarter comments appears to me to sound like a plant from another company attempting to make people second guess their Bones purchase (it just seemed way too scripted of a rant).

 

But we are not at day 10 here, we are on day like 70 since the vampire sets arrived. I doubt that they are able to maintain 1000 shipped per day but if they fall down to 53 regardless of complexity for more than a single day except way near the end when they are shipping out thousand dollar orders they are not devoting the proper attention to the shipping. They have know that they were going need to ship out 18000 orders for 6 months. Give 2 months at 5 days a week minus 1 week for reapercon you have 35 shipping days. So to get it done in that time you need to average 500 shipments a day. The last 1000 might be pretty time comsuming so you better have made good progress when you could have earlier.

 

I was annoyed at the idea of May but I have heard discussion about it dragging all the way into middle of June now. That is getting pretty late for something that was supposed to be shipped in March.

[ksera]

From what I know, if Canadian Customs tacks on a huge customs fee because they reassesed the value of your items, you can show them how much you paid for it (a bill, recipt) and they can change the charge (my brother got a violin from China and paid $60, they thought it cost much more, but he showed them the bill and they waved most of the fees).

 

And although I am super excited to get my Bones, I am also patient. stuff happens, and Reaper got so much more support than they thought they would, so it's kinda understandable that even if they started March first, they probably wouldn't be done shipping still today. They aren't robots, and they don't employ 1000's of people. I'm sure they are busting their elf to get it done.

 

The only thing I wish was for them to send out a simple update about how they are doing. Even if they are doing stuffty and need a hug.

[bojesphob]

 

 

Once you add anything to the basic vampire set the box probably goes up a size. A extra set of storm giants or an set of the optional mind your manors are the same approximate size so the distinction seems strange. The distinction makes perfect sense in the idea that all the minis in the vampire sets where done and shipped first then the additional mini options are arriving later. Maybe they are all sitting in containers around the warehouse but they should have shipped the pure vampire sets way earlier instead of having them sit around the warehouse for a month waiting on what?

 

End of the day we can complain all we want but they already have our money so they know as long as we like the minis when we do finally get them then we will forget the slow delivery by the time we think we are done with these 240 minis and need more.

 

I do not think that a daily counter and weekly few line update is to much to ask.

 

For Example:

Shipped: 9235 of 18000 Orders

Currently Shipping: Vampire+Vampire Extras+Paint Sets+Cases

 

Takes about 10 seconds.

 

Nymerias has it right. The only issue with this is that if someone saw 9235 orders out of 18000 shipped by day 10, then said, "well, that means they are shipping around 923 orders a day". They get into the larger orders, and all of a sudden, they only had 53 sent out in one day and only take the total up to 9288, because of the added complexity and the changeover of boxes and such. All of a sudden, you have 8712 people upset because they didn't send out 923 on that day. Also, that 10 seconds that you mention is only the time that it takes POST a message about it, that's not including the amount of time it takes to actually calculate how many were done. Even if they are doing scans or punching in numbers, somebody has to sit down and actually go through and determine what was sent out or what was boxed up, and that takes time as well. As much as I'd love to know where I am on the list to get stuff, I'd rather them take that extra time to figure out where I am at and actually just get it sent out quicker. If them not updating us every day telling us where they are means I get my pledge 3 days sooner, then I'd rather not make them update me. Considering there's somebody on the kickstarter bashing the minis already, you know there are going to be people who flip out because as the complexity ramps up, the shipping slows down. Of course, for some reason, the person who was complaining about the material for the minis on the kickstarter comments appears to me to sound like a plant from another company attempting to make people second guess their Bones purchase (it just seemed way too scripted of a rant).

 

But we are not at day 10 here, we are on day like 70 since the vampire sets arrived. I doubt that they are able to maintain 1000 shipped per day but if they fall down to 53 regardless of complexity for more than a single day except way near the end when they are shipping out thousand dollar orders they are not devoting the proper attention to the shipping. They have know that they were going need to ship out 18000 orders for 6 months. Give 2 months at 5 days a week minus 1 week for reapercon you have 35 shipping days. So to get it done in that time you need to average 500 shipments a day. The last 1000 might be pretty time comsuming so you better have made good progress when you could have earlier.

 

I was annoyed at the idea of May but I have heard discussion about it dragging all the way into middle of June now. That is getting pretty late for something that was supposed to be shipped in March.

 

Well, from the sounds of it, they are working diligently to keep the pace up. I do agree, a headsup that they are shipping again and approximately where they are at would be nice, but, in the end, they are only going to be able to go as fast as they can go. As a company, they would be utterly braindead to not get these out as quickly as humanely possible without breaking the bank trying to hire someone in to come in to help them, so I would say that they are going to do what they need to do to get it done. Getting upset about their pace, or even that they haven't updated recently, doesn't really do anybody any good (not saying you're upset, just saying it across the board). And, I know you're probably sick of hearing it, but the "supposed to be shipped in March" was actually "estimated to be shipped in March", which is just another way of saying "We hope we can ship in March, but don't be surprised if we can't". Several thousand people already have their stuff, so it's not like they even really missed March, because they did start shipping in March. Wasn't there a saying once that went something along the lines of "Good things come to those who wait?"

 

If you're having a hard time waiting, find something else to pass the time until you get the email. Personally, I like the wait, because it gives me a chance to get caught up on painting for other people that I have to do. I need 240+ more minis to paint right now like I need another hole in the head, and this is giving me the time I need to get other stuff painted.

[blakbuzzrd]

If you're having a hard time waiting, find something else to pass the time until you get the email. Personally, I like the wait, because it gives me a chance to get caught up on painting for other people that I have to do. I need 240+ more minis to paint right now like I need another hole in the head, and this is giving me the time I need to get other stuff painted.

 

^This. I already have massive guilt from too many unpainted minis to legitimately care about when the Bones arrive. ADHD is co-morbid with figmentia, you see, and I can barely make a decision about what to paint as it is.

Edited May 6, 2013 by blakbuzzrd

[vutpakdi]

Maybe they are all sitting in containers around the warehouse but they should have shipped the pure vampire sets way earlier instead of having them sit around the warehouse for a month waiting on what?

 

The pure Vampire sets started shipping as soon as the last piece (Mr. Bones) arrived.

 

Ron

[jdizzy001]

My patience just took a major hit; it looks like, rather than working CONUS for the next year or so, we may be deploying overseas soon. So, if my Bones don't arrive sooner than Soon, I may be SOL for a while...

I'm in a similar boat. I am commissioning soon and then will be sent to my first station overseas.