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I don't see anything Reaper has done as deceptive at all. They estimated a ship date when they started out. Then they had to change it, telling us clearly that this had to be done. They were thrown for a loop by...was it UPS...that told them they could change their way of sending stuff off to Canadian backers so it would be as low-cost as possible. That was a last-minute bit of info thrown at them, not by them! They had some unexpected delays on shipping to due China and Customs, which they have been saying over and over again. They never said the dates were guarenteed. They said "if all goes well" or "best estimate". If anything, I'm tired of people deciding Reaper somehow is "deceiving" them or that anything less than instant gratification is bad! Sheesh! It's on the KS page and now here too? Sure I want my Bones asap, but I'm not gonna run around screaming if it's not done RIGHT NAO!! This was never a pre-order. We were never told it would be ____ day set in stone. I'd love to see the people who think this try to do all that Reaper has done, and in as timely a manner as they have!

 

Just to point out to anyone reading that may be assuming this: Kickstarter rewards are not Pre-orders! You pay premiums to get pre-ordered items, which may or may not have some special extra. Companies that do this already have the product made and are simply awaiting the time to ship it out. Kickstarters are projects that kickstart something that needs more investment than the company may currently have available at that moment. If you help at ___ level, you get a reward. The reward is not necessarily instant. This is especially true if the reward(s) is/are part of what you're pledging money to help make. The average kickstarter is months, possibly even years late on delivering rewards. Some are disasters that never see the light of day. Reaper has shown themselves to be an upstanding company with a reliable record in great customer service. Considering this is their first venture in KS and the fact that they have a much smaller number working shipping than Amazon's warehouses, you should cut them some slack. Or volunteer to help. You should not expect them to instantly transport your things to your door! They are not telekinetics, though that'd be sweet!! If you don't like how this has gone, I suggest not backing KS projects, as this is the norm. Actually, this is better than the norm!!

 

Sorry. I had to rant a bit. I was kinda pissed to see the same messages over and over on the KS page and I just don't wanna see that here. We should know better. At least I thought we did....

Edited by Terra Branford
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Im disappointed but completely understanding about the delays. For the communication my opinion is it has fallen prey to being more enthusiastic/optimistic rather than helpful. Im sure Reaper will learn from the experience - in fact the latest update seems to show they have already done so, at least partially.

But honestly, the thing Im finding most frustrating at the moment is the amount of people who are complaining about people complaining. Im not sure how deliberately antagonising people who are already upset is a good idea, or why these antagonists feel that their own complaints are somehow any more or less reasonable than the ones they are complaining about. (And yes, Im aware of the irony of complaining about people complaining about people complaining :blush: Ive tried to keep it succinct rather than writing a 1000 word rant)

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Ah. I wasn't trying to be a pain with my rant above. I was just so annoyed that even when reasonable arguments were presented to some of the complainers, that they stubbornly refused to accept them and still say they were wronged, they were mad, ect. I have no problem if someone is just blowing off steam, but the way the comments were presented was more than that. They seemed more to suggest that they were directly attacking Reaper overall, which got my hackles raised.

 

I've also got this bad habit of typing on and on. Some of my emails have been pages long, going from one topic to the next as my mind wanders. And I think this soapbox might have to do with it too. *steps off soapbox and places it in its cubbyhole* If I promise to tone down my speeches can I have a cookie?

Edited by Terra Branford
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So, I am looking for a few good men and women. Stout hearted and willing to face extreme danger. An elite team of damage control specialists to police the Kickstarted comments and fight rumors and conjecture with facts. It is a dangerous job, some of you might not make it back, and those who do will be forever changed. So, who's with me?

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I'm getting a little annoyed at people claiming that Reaper lied in the Kickstarter comments, and I'm even more annoyed that I have to admit that the people predicting a June / July fufillment date are closer to accurate than I was. And several times I've started posts saying as much. But I've always stopped before hitting the 'Post' button, asked myself exactly what I'm adding to the discussion that's of value, and then just closed the browser window with the post that's taken me 45 minutes to write fading into the aether as I realise it's just not worth it.

 

Reaper is capable of defending itself if it feels it's necessary. Hell, the smartest thing for them to do in a lot of ways is to answer the questions that are reasonable and just ignore the more outrageous flames & starve them of oxygen. So, I've restricted myself to posting my thanks for the updates, expressing my desire for more of them, outlining my satisfaction with Reaper customer service as experienced to date, and moving on from there. I'm not going to belabour the point, or tell people screaming 'Reaper lied, Goblins died!' that they're mistaken.

 

If I've got a problem that Reaper can assist with, I will (and have) contact them directly for a response. To date, they've given extremely good service to all requests put that way. I agree that communication and expecatation management could have been better, but at the end of the day - I've got a shed-load of figures landing shortly for a very reasonable price. As the old saying goes - cheap, quality, on time. Pick 2 of the 3.

 

I'm happy that 'on time' is the variable that's slipped : )

Edited by Laoke
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So, I am looking for a few good men and women. Stout hearted and willing to face extreme danger. An elite team of damage control specialists to police the Kickstarted comments and fight rumors and conjecture with facts. It is a dangerous job, some of you might not make it back, and those who do will be forever changed. So, who's with me?

 

I would, but it's like fighting quicksand with a teaspoon. I suggest simply posting once with your points outlined cleanly then moving on with your day.

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Seriously, do we not have any patience anymore? Yes, I concur, Reaper has made a few mistakes along the line on the communication front. Quite frankly seeing how they get jumped on for any off hand remark I'd be pretty careful about what I say too. In this last update they laid it on the line and are catching nothing but grief for it. Grief for things that are completely outside of their control.

 

I see this the exact opposite from you. People have been jumping on every little thing that gets said because reaper has been saying so little. I understand the delay. I'm ok with it. Not gleeful about it, but not all that upset either. However, this new update is about a month over due and feels like it had to be beaten out of them. In the past month anyone that's raised the question of delays in receiving from China has taken their fair beating as well. A page or two back I posted ReaperBrian's direct response to those questions. Stop speculating, we're not shipping those yet due to the size box they take.... Basically going out of his way to make it seem that this delay didn't and wouldn't exist. They weren't off hand remarks, he specifically said he came on the forum to deal with those "rumors".

 

Reaper did good with communication up until March. Since then they have been working very hard to make sure people have reasons to jump on every little thing they say.

 

Like I said I agree that there were/are some communication issues. The box size issue does exist and it did, indeed, hold up shipping. We don't know what is in the warehouse right now and I certainly wouldn't expect Reaper to tell us that. And if the container had arrived when it was expected then they would have been able to do at least some shipping. People make mistakes, companies make mistakes, they have acknowledged it that should be enough. This kickstarter is still farther along than a lot of others and has said a whole heck of a lot more than some other companies. The logistical issues behind this are tremendous I will continue to feel that we should be cutting Reaper some slack, be satisfied that things are on track, with an approximate schedule and just let them get to it. I'll even offer to buy out your pledge (well not until June, I only get paid once a month).

 

The box size issue as specifically relating to things that they don't currently appear to have has been holding up shipping rather than them not having the items?

 

I'm happy to cut Reaper slack on the delays themselves. Not so much on continuing to demand good communication and pointing out when it's failed. Without people staying on them about it I doubt we'd have the current update. That's what we learned in the time between reapercon starting and when they finally updated.

 

No, I don't want a refund, I don't want to sell, I don't want extras thrown in, I'm not asking for any part of my order to be shipped early. I want regular updates with relevant information. I don't want to be patronized about how we can't handle getting real updates because it leads to complaining. The complaining is being created by that policy not avoided because of it.

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I'm wondering if this thread was pruned by the mods (I'm betting not?) or if some of the people here are getting angry at people posting in the Kickstarter rather than what was posted here in the forums. I may be mind wiping myself because I'm not in the mood for negativity, but I cold swear that everyone who posted in this thread today has only expressed resignation, disappointment, and a heavy sigh. Maybe some sighs were heavier than others but it kind of feels like some people defending Reaper are taking out their own disappointment and frustration on those expressing their disappointment.

 

Registering my own resignation and disappointment and maybe a small sigh. Not mad. Not "disappointed in" Reaper. I completely understand their position. I don't think that they could have avoided the delay on their end. No blame is being assigned to Reaper. I still think they are wonderful and the deal was fantastic and I am not complaining. But it's okay if I say "aw, shucky dern". Reaper said I could. So don't growl at me. :B On the plus side, it gives me more time to focus on writing so I can have a nice little paycheck from my various ebook vendors and maybe even pick up a few L2PKs before Bonami washes over me.

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I'm trying not to take out my frustration with the people over on the KS comments on anyone here. The people here, even when unhappy, are generally reasonable about it. I too am disappointed not in my own shipment being delayed because I understand why that has happened, and that Reaper began the process nearly six months ago so it is not their fault. I am disappointed for my many reaper-peeper friends who are stuck waiting, and I am disappointed for people like Bryan and Ed who are working their butts off to try and make this happen, and get called liars and worse because of things out of their hands.

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Seriously, do we not have any patience anymore? Yes, I concur, Reaper has made a few mistakes along the line on the communication front. Quite frankly seeing how they get jumped on for any off hand remark I'd be pretty careful about what I say too. In this last update they laid it on the line and are catching nothing but grief for it. Grief for things that are completely outside of their control.

 

I see this the exact opposite from you. People have been jumping on every little thing that gets said because reaper has been saying so little. I understand the delay. I'm ok with it. Not gleeful about it, but not all that upset either. However, this new update is about a month over due and feels like it had to be beaten out of them. In the past month anyone that's raised the question of delays in receiving from China has taken their fair beating as well. A page or two back I posted ReaperBrian's direct response to those questions. Stop speculating, we're not shipping those yet due to the size box they take.... Basically going out of his way to make it seem that this delay didn't and wouldn't exist. They weren't off hand remarks, he specifically said he came on the forum to deal with those "rumors".

 

Reaper did good with communication up until March. Since then they have been working very hard to make sure people have reasons to jump on every little thing they say.

 

Like I said I agree that there were/are some communication issues. The box size issue does exist and it did, indeed, hold up shipping. We don't know what is in the warehouse right now and I certainly wouldn't expect Reaper to tell us that. And if the container had arrived when it was expected then they would have been able to do at least some shipping. People make mistakes, companies make mistakes, they have acknowledged it that should be enough. This kickstarter is still farther along than a lot of others and has said a whole heck of a lot more than some other companies. The logistical issues behind this are tremendous I will continue to feel that we should be cutting Reaper some slack, be satisfied that things are on track, with an approximate schedule and just let them get to it. I'll even offer to buy out your pledge (well not until June, I only get paid once a month).

 

...The box size issue as specifically relating to things that they don't currently appear to have has been holding up shipping rather than them not having the items?....

Not trying to disregard what you are saying, its certainly valid. But on this point we are both speculating and its hard to have a discussion on an unknown point. Having seen the warehouse were everything is stored it would be hard for me to believe that there aren't some of those boxes in there, however, I don't know for sure.Based on that fact I cannot discount what you are saying, however, you in turn can't prove that some of those big boxed miniatures aren't in there either. I suspect that there are some in there but not enough that would allow them to begin shipping. So I suggest we let this particular point lay dogo.

Edited by Heisler
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So, I just wanted to express my appreciation really quick for the reaper peeps here on the forums. You guys are so awesome and supportive of each other and of Reaper, and the sense of community I've found here is something I haven't found in a lot of other places online. I like how everyone's generally trying to stay positive, and expressing their frustrations and sadness at the news from this latest update (and previous ones) while still being civil. I finally decided to just stop reading the comments on the KS, things are simply getting too nasty over there and it just makes me even more sad and frustrated than I already am.

 

So keep being cool everyone, and thanks for making a n00b like me feel welcome. :)

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

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I think maybe his definition of exciting and that of most backers clearly differs. Saying that shipping was resuming and things would be wrapped up soon would be exciting. Saying that most of the backers left won't see shipments until July is not exciting. Well not in the way most people use that word.

 

Also, we don't know what Bryan's update originally said. He mentioned that it was quite wordy, and was handed off for approval. This last update was very terse. Who knows what was edited out.

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Id say that having a reasonably precise timeline is exciting.

 

What a lot of people seem to be misinterpreting is that alongside an exciting update, the information in this update also caused some upset over previous updates. Reaper are simultaneously getting feedback over the current update and having to make up for the upset caused by poor communication in the past. An update to give us a timeline for delivery would be great, with the assumption that we were previously kept up to date and already knew that delivery wasnt going to happen within the next few weeks.

 

It shouldnt be interpreted as any problem with this update. If previous updates had been of good quality and kept people up to date, this update would be received positively and without much drama (apart from general upset about the long delivery time, where those people were going to be just as upset regardless of getting any update now or not)

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