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I just left the store after picking up my bones, paint & cases. I took some pics of the figures in the display room (I'll come back later with my good camera) & it is worth the drive to just see that. I'll be posting pics in an hour or two.

Thank you to the gang at Reaper. Couldn't meet a nicer bunch of people.

 

(I got to hold Kaladrax & it is HUGE!!!!!!)

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@Cmorse - that's got to be the 4th or 5th time you've linked that post. I was not hiding the fact that we were waiting on more containers, I came out and said it. In addition, I stated quite openly that there was information I was concealing. And there still is. As one example - I'm still not telling precisely which items are in which containers, or how may of each are on each container. There are other facts, too. I'm not denying it.

 

Were there factors delaying shipments that I didn't mention? Absolutely. I don't sleep well and haven't for months, (not because of my conscience, as you have implied that I'm deliberately deceptive) because this project is more complex than anything I have ever done, and it is, quite frankly, terrifying the number of things that could go wrong. There's little things - like paperwork SNAFUs, and big things like containers being late. I don't think it's necessary to post an update that a part number got inverted on a customs form back in February and there was an hour long phone call to clear that up, and that was not a fun hour, but in the end, it caused a delay that was not noticeable on your end, so why bother? It just makes people worry, and keeping people from worrying is part of my job.

 

But I don't think that's what you're trying to say. So rather than beat around the bush, I will answer outright what you have tried to imply. Yes, I spin. It's part of my job. I put as positive and optimistic a face on the truth as I possibly can. Nothing I said was a lie, but some of it was more cheerful sounding than the reality behind the curtain might warrant. I am absolutely guilty of trying to cast the most positive light possible on the facts, and trying to push to the shadows some of the less pleasant realities. I do not now, nor have I ever, denied that.

 

Even in this very post, I'm trying to be as positive as I can. Yet, in previous posts, I have openly admitted mistakes, errors in statement and judgement, and so on. I give you my word that I will be as truthful as I can possibly be, given that some information will always be concealed for internal reasons, and further, I promise that I will always be as positive as I can. For me, the glass is half-full. This last update was an attempt to correct the errors of the past. Dates and hard details about shipping were given, something we had been sly about in the past.

 

If that means you can no longer trust me, I accept that. For my part, as those who know me can attest, I will never deliberately lie, although I can be wrong about stuff just as much as anybody else.

 

That would be the third time I linked to that post. Twice in these forums and once in the KS comments. I've described it in two ways. One was misleading and the other was carefully honest. Given how much information you're privy to I doubt you could read the same way as someone who has only read the updates. If you could throw away everything you know and read that post with just the information available in the updates to go on I have a feeling it would read a lot different than how you currently think it reads. Another way to put it, I don't think that post says what you think it says. Not to people other than you anyway.

 

As I can only assume you read, since you referenced other parts of the same set of posts, I have no problem with the current update. Content and tone wise its the sort of update the earlier portion of the kickstarter lead me to expect and look forward to. Unfortunately, because of that, it also shines a light on the month + of not so good updates/lack of updates. Again, forget all the things no one outside of reaper knows, read through the updates again.

 

If you've apologized regarding the updates I'm afraid I missed it or misread it. There was none in the main KS updates and though I'm following the forum closely I'm sure I've missed any number of posts. The impression I've ended up with was oops, we didn't think you'd notice. I'm sure that impression also effects the way I've read the updates and your posts as much as all the things you know warping what you think the updates say. My apologies if I've offended you. I don't think you're a liar, I believe you to be overly careful in your honesty. My opinion regarding the updates and information remains unchanged, but it is after all merely my opinion.

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Good to hear that things are working out! I'm patiently waiting for my Bones, while getting supplies together to start cracking on my L2PKs (an x-acto knife for instance).

 

@Bryan Not trying to go off topic, but will we see Reaper at Paizocon? If so, expect a BIG hug and a thank you in your future! If not, I'll try for Pax Prime, though I still have to get passes...but if I can do that, then be prepared for a short silly woman to hug you! You really deserve it guys!! If that's not allowed, at least let me know what drinks you like (probably can't bring alcohol in though). Don't mind the giant behind me blushing slightly at my antics. My bf's used to it. ;)

 

@cmorse To be honest I don't see the same thing you do in that linked post either. I don't work at Reaper, nor do I have insider info. I guess it's an individual basis? All I see in the post are estimates and hopes for something to work out a certain way. There doesn't appear to be anything misleading. This situation reminds me of Drama class

back in Jr High. Our teacher told us the same words and phrases can change in meaning based off how they are said. Given that this is a written communication rather than a verbal one, the "way it is said" can change based off the way the person reading takes it. It's the same with books too. People see messages and different meanings from them, and as they say, people bring into it their own experiences.

Edited by Terra Branford
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Bryan, know that for each complainer, there are one of us complementing your good work, and at least 10,000 silent ones.

 

Don´t worry so much about this. Do your best (as always) and leave it be.

We understand and will wait as long as we have to, knowing that all that can be done is being done.

 

Thank you for the updates and the nice work.

 

 

 

PS. I hope Psyberwolfe1´s sister is ok.

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To a certain extent, blame for miscommunication goes both ways. There's the part we read, and the part we're told. I've gotten lots of stuff wrong, and some stuff I think I was told wrong. And some stuff changed as the situation changed.

 

That's just consequence of not having a whole picture. Like with the Canadian shipments and RAFM, and how that turned out. I gave out wrong information multiple times because I didn't have the unknown unknowns - or even some known unknowns. And some of the info I had turned out to be wrong, either because I misread it, missed an update, or what I was told was true at the time and later turned out to be different but I didn't know it was different.

 

That's why I was quick to try and squash speculation. As it turned out, the speculation based on the post about not having all the stuff in was true. At the time, I actually thought it was false (I thought everything had already arrived and was just waiting on being packed and shipped). But it was still speculation until confirmed.

 

So I assume that the facts of the case are fluid, not because of deception but because there's just so much going on to juggle. We're not going to, nor are we entitled to get, every single shred of info. Frankly, it's too much info to throw out in any case. Problem A might result in Consequence B, which might be bad, or it might be easily resolved.

 

I trust Reaper to keep us up to date on the major stuff, and I accept that this outlook projection is subject to change. I don't like being so in the dark, but I know it's going to happen, it has to happen, and all I can do is roll with it as information becomes available and refined.

 

In the end, my only solid expectation is that at some point in the future I will get my stuff from Reaper. That's the only Full Contractual Obligation. Everything else is just hints or hopes as to the soonness of that event - because until Box Number Last is out the door not even Reaper knows the exact time and date.

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The part that gets me is that, in the end, the drama and anticipation and stress, all stem from the same place: We are all excited about the product. People don't spend $3+mil on (hobby/art/toys/call-it-what-you-will) without feeling some sort of passion for the project, and I think the massive response is representative of that. It's one of the reasons that the Reaper Kickstarter was so strong; the passion from the company was palpable during the event itself. Updates spawned like wild rabbits, people were re-evaluating their order constantly, the build-up was intense and handled wonderfully.

 

Unfortunately, with this much time having passed, it's hard to maintain that excitement level, even though we knew it was going to take at least this much time to finish.

 

And at the end of the day, the people who complain about the shipping schedule, who over-analyze every statement that comes across the boards, and who complain that "even better" isn't "good enough", are only doing so because they feel that intensity, too. The problem here, Bryan, isn't that you're not doing your job well. It's that you're doing it too well. You've raised a literal mob, which I now imagine as a group of unruly peasants, waving stylized Bonesium pitchforks and torches at the pewter fortress of high priced figurines (it's a great vision, try it, it's really amusing). But mobs get bored, and you're the biggest target. I think it's a testament to your skills that the majority of us are still so excited about this product after so long, and that even the naysayers finish their complaints with "I just want my Bones!".

 

The good news is that, if Reaper does another Kickstarter, the risks and challenges will be more spelled out, and the people who are really unhappy at this one can choose not to participate next time.

 

But most of them will buy again, anyways. They won't be able to stop themselves. And they'll probably complain again, and then they'll come back for Bones Kickstarter 3, because that's what passion does to people... well, that and raise $3mil on plastic figurines. ;)

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If not a Bones 3 Kickstarter, at least a "expand the factory and equipment, moulds" kickstarter. I can see that in the future. I'm also hoping to see Reaper show up on "Made in America" someday, proudly showing all those jobs we are helping to create for this line.

 

Spade413 is right that even the naysayers want their Bones. When they arrive, you just know they'll be posting excitedly everywhere and bragging how they have a ton of awesome minis and it's too late for those who missed out "na na nuh naaa na!!". XD I'm expecting to see people bring these in to future cons, either painted or not, ready to play a module or two of their favorite games. I already know my gm/dm bf will be sorely tempted to use them for his campaigns. But he has to wait till I paint them first....bwahahaha!!!

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Trust me, Erifnogard, if anybody ever convinces to jump back into the living Hell that is Kickstarter, I will be adding at least 6 weeks to all of the internal time estimates (mold time +6w, cast time +6w, ship time +6w , etc).  Container shipping will be assumed 2 months per instead of one month per, etc.

 

I'm honestly surprised creators aren't doing this already. I mean, it shouldn't be expected for KS projects to ship late. With this many case studies, surely the newer projects should have figured that out by now?

To be fair, KS didn't really *explode* for tabletop gaming until last summer, when Reaper held their KS...

 

I no longer have faith that we can do *anything* that somebody won't complain about.

People complained to me back when I used to do FREE Paint and Takes. Yes, you're getting a free mini and access to a complete line of paints, but it sucks because there are no Dragons or Giants to choose from...

 

...I can be wrong about stuff just as much as anybody else.

Well, you did once tell Sandra Garrity that I was harmless... :rock:

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Future KickStarters will stil have to use China for fulfillment of orders. I want to say that back in January Bryan had mentioned in a post that fulfillment for this KS took casting on a level that just isn't feasible for Reaper at this point. If I remember correctly (which I am sure I don't), this KS required that 6 plastic injection machines run full tilt for 3 months strait in order to manufacture all the pledge rewards. The KS did allow for Reaper to get one injection machine, but that doesn't mean that they would be able to handle the volume of minis needed for fulfillment on the next KS. Sure it helps, and it will get better each time they can add another machine, but don't look for the next KS to not have shipping and customs issues.

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Good to hear that things are working out! I'm patiently waiting for my Bones, while getting supplies together to start cracking on my L2PKs (an x-acto knife for instance).

 

@Bryan Not trying to go off topic, but will we see Reaper at Paizocon? If so, expect a BIG hug and a thank you in your future! If not, I'll try for Pax Prime, though I still have to get passes...but if I can do that, then be prepared for a short silly woman to hug you! You really deserve it guys!! If that's not allowed, at least let me know what drinks you like (probably can't bring alcohol in though). Don't mind the giant behind me blushing slightly at my antics. My bf's used to it. ;)

 

@cmorse To be honest I don't see the same thing you do in that linked post either. I don't work at Reaper, nor do I have insider info. I guess it's an individual basis? All I see in the post are estimates and hopes for something to work out a certain way. There doesn't appear to be anything misleading. This situation reminds me of Drama class back in Jr High. Our teacher told us the same words and phrases can change in meaning based off how they are said. Given that this is a written communication rather than a verbal one, the "way it is said" can change based off the way the person reading takes it. It's the same with books too. People see messages and different meanings from them, and as they say, people bring into it their own experiences.

I myself will not be at PaizoCon. I'm still not sure if I will be at Origins, given the timing of the arrival of the last Container. (Origins is Jun 15, I think, and we expect the container to land between the 11th and the 25th, so ...) Jubilee (Ali Bailey) will be there hosting a PNT at PaizoCon and representing us, and I am providing product support for classes and contests, but cannot make it there with so much going on here. This will be the second year in 4 I have not gone, and the first in 4 that my wife has not (She is likewise needed here - all hands on deck, as it were).

 

That would be the third time I linked to that post. Twice in these forums and once in the KS comments. I've described it in two ways. One was misleading and the other was carefully honest.

<snip>

My apologies if I've offended you. I don't think you're a liar, I believe you to be overly careful in your honesty. My opinion regarding the updates and information remains unchanged, but it is after all merely my opinion.

I am not offended, and it helps to be reminded that not everybody reads things the way i intend, so that I can continue to improve in my communication.

I am sorry, for my part, if my post to you seemed over aggressive. I will also cop to having been overly careful, and have been known to tell the truth "from a certain point of view" </ben kenobi>.

Sometimes I will admit that giving answers on here is like walking into a minefield - as I said, people will take things whatever way they choose, so I usually try to make my meaning unambiguous, unless, of course, ambiguity was what I was going for.

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Future KickStarters will stil have to use China for fulfillment of orders. I want to say that back in January Bryan had mentioned in a post that fulfillment for this KS took casting on a level that just isn't feasible for Reaper at this point. If I remember correctly (which I am sure I don't), this KS required that 6 plastic injection machines run full tilt for 3 months strait in order to manufacture all the pledge rewards. The KS did allow for Reaper to get one injection machine, but that doesn't mean that they would be able to handle the volume of minis needed for fulfillment on the next KS. Sure it helps, and it will get better each time they can add another machine, but don't look for the next KS to not have shipping and customs issues.

China has 14 of these machines, running since September. I know that until April, we were on all 14 machines. I have to assume that the recent delays are because another job took some of our machines, but that's PURE SPECULATION on my part, and I warn against anybody reading too much into that.

 

But you were close :)

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I've been reading the comments and trying not to smile, ....... It's a kickstarter.......

 

I've backed several kickstarters before delays happen. This one was exceptional 30k to 3.5m wow.

 

The rolling targets in the ks were great to watch and drew my boys (6+8) and I in. I've had them painting ever since then (even my wife is painting now)

 

So my kids and I have to wait a few more weeks for delightful models at an amazing price....

 

I think I'll cope and my boys even at their age are smart enough to appreciate that great things are worth waiting for.

 

Good luck Reaper I really hope this experience doesn't put you off doing another.

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I myself will not be at PaizoCon. I'm still not sure if I will be at Origins, given the timing of the arrival of the last Container. (Origins is Jun 15, I think, and we expect the container to land between the 11th and the 25th, so ...) Jubilee (Ali Bailey) will be there hosting a PNT at PaizoCon and representing us, and I am providing product support for classes and contests, but cannot make it there with so much going on here. This will be the second year in 4 I have not gone, and the first in 4 that my wife has not (She is likewise needed here - all hands on deck, as it were).

 

Well, I'll be hugging Jubilee for sure! I guess we'll have to see about Pax, right? But I really wish I was close by to volunteer my help.

 

edit: And ShadowRaven beat me to it with his post but I still stand by what I said. :) See? We love you guys so much we're willing to risk the Evil Glowing Orb and tax our bodies doing Real Work (cuz you know, gamers and hobbiests never actually work riiiight? XD ).

Edited by Terra Branford
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Future KickStarters will stil have to use China for fulfillment of orders. I want to say that back in January Bryan had mentioned in a post that fulfillment for this KS took casting on a level that just isn't feasible for Reaper at this point. If I remember correctly (which I am sure I don't), this KS required that 6 plastic injection machines run full tilt for 3 months strait in order to manufacture all the pledge rewards. The KS did allow for Reaper to get one injection machine, but that doesn't mean that they would be able to handle the volume of minis needed for fulfillment on the next KS. Sure it helps, and it will get better each time they can add another machine, but don't look for the next KS to not have shipping and customs issues.

China has 14 of these machines, running since September. I know that until April, we were on all 14 machines. I have to assume that the recent delays are because another job took some of our machines, but that's PURE SPECULATION on my part, and I warn against anybody reading too much into that.

 

But you were close :)

Did I read that right?

 

Your Bones order kept a factory with fourteen injection molders running solidly for seven months? 98 machine-months of work?

 

:blink:

 

...

 

It looks like your one plastic injection molder, delightful though it is, is not going to replace China's capacity for a while.

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