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I'm still pretty lucky to have gotten in on the Kickstarter albeit late. I do regret the drastic markup in Vampire Box cost (50%) while I felt a bit better about the add-ons (20%). All told I spent right around $300, but if I were to take that 50% on the vampire box and 20% on the add-ons I would've had enough to make a second vampire box feasible for only $20 more or actually for $21 cheaper since I doubled up on a few Vampire sets which wouldn't have been necessary (bedeviled, haunts, fire it up, dark elves, familiars, dungeon dressings $41 in total). Or I could've taken the plunge on some paints or a miniatures case. THAT is my biggest regret... big time. Still I am happy I got a very good deal compared to MSRP, but the huge jump sucked IMO. I'm still not sure why they felt necessary to do this. I thought it might be a common occurrence in the KS world, but my experience with other KS now has all been pledge with paypal afterwards for the same amount as KS prices.

 

I regret that. I also regretted not getting Wyrmgear at first. At $15 it was a nice deal, but since I got in post-KS it was $18 for me. Well turns out MSRP is $25 and with the discount at the online store I usually purchase from it comes out to $18.50 so I'm not missing out on much of a deal.

 

Same for a few other add-ons I skimped on. I did however make the right decision to buy Nethyrmaul, Kaladrax, and Cthulu. Even at a 20% increase I only had to pay $30, $15, and $15. Not so sure if I made the right decision on all my other add-ons, I think a case and paints would have been better discount-wise compared to MSRP. I added on Fire Giants, Fire Giant Warriors and Frost Giants. (I wish they had Frost Giant Warriors too OC), Demons, Deathlseet, and Ebonwrath. also Spider Centaurs.

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I'm still pretty lucky to have gotten in on the Kickstarter albeit late. I do regret the drastic markup in Vampire Box cost (50%) while I felt a bit better about the add-ons (20%). All told I spent right around $300, but if I were to take that 50% on the vampire box and 20% on the add-ons I would've had enough to make a second vampire box feasible for only $20 more or actually for $21 cheaper since I doubled up on a few Vampire sets which wouldn't have been necessary (bedeviled, haunts, fire it up, dark elves, familiars, dungeon dressings $41 in total). Or I could've taken the plunge on some paints or a miniatures case. THAT is my biggest regret... big time. Still I am happy I got a very good deal compared to MSRP, but the huge jump sucked IMO. I'm still not sure why they felt necessary to do this. I thought it might be a common occurrence in the KS world, but my experience with other KS now has all been pledge with paypal afterwards for the same amount as KS prices.

To begin with, it's not that Reaper put in a mark-up after the Kickstarter, it's that they were offering things at a special deep discount during it.

 

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure, but I think there has been kind of a shake-out of how Kickstarter is done. Reaper did okay, but a lot of people who offered big discounts during their Kickstarters got clobbered by unexpected charges, taxes, and Amazon and Kickstarter taking out their cut of the money raised. I

 

It seems like more people are offering things more or less at their later prices without a discount (but this is just an anecdotal observation. I don't know if it's actually the case).

 

And that's why you see more people offering things more cautiously, at higher pledge levels than last year.

 

And it is only within the last year as far as I know. The paypal later adjustment thing seems a very recent development. And Reaper's pledge manager was highly experimental and a new thing at the time, seven months ago.

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To begin with, it's not that Reaper put in a mark-up after the Kickstarter, it's that they were offering things at a special deep discount during it.

 

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure, but I think there has been kind of a shake-out of how Kickstarter is done. Reaper did okay, but a lot of people who offered big discounts during their Kickstarters got clobbered by unexpected charges, taxes, and Amazon and Kickstarter taking out their cut of the money raised. I

 

It seems like more people are offering things more or less at their later prices without a discount (but this is just an anecdotal observation. I don't know if it's actually the case).

 

And that's why you see more people offering things more cautiously, at higher pledge levels than last year.

 

And it is only within the last year as far as I know. The paypal later adjustment thing seems a very recent development. And Reaper's pledge manager was highly experimental and a new thing at the time, seven months ago.

 

Potatoes, Potatoes. You can say it was a special deep discount during the KS, but that's not the wording Reaper themselves used, so that's more personal opinion than anything. They specifically said 20% more, not that it was 20% less during the 30 day's of official KS.

 

I'm not trying to bash them as I am very happy with the opportunity I did get, but it's a bit much to suggest that the few people who found out about the kickstarter after the initial 30 days during the paypal post KS period were going to cause Reaper to lose significant money. They didn't limit all post-KS purchases to the increased rate because they let people who got some kind of pledge in during the 30 day window to keep the original prices throughout the entire extended period. There were many people who went from pledging 1 vampire box to increasing that to 2 or more during the post KS period, all for $100 each rather than $150. Same with add-ons etc. I would be very surprised if that didn't account for the vast majority of post KS increases in orders.

 

So I find it a little "eh" that you may be suggesting that somehow because I didn't know about the KS right away, pledging literally *days* after it ended and *months* before my (or early pledgers) money was spent and the machinery was ordered or the castings were finalized, that I was somehow taking advantage of the company or somehow was a much bigger risk to them than those who hopped on early? That their pledge increase after the KS ended is somehow more safe than mine, despite my money being just as real.

 

As for "It seems like more people are offering things more or less at their later prices without a discount (but this is just an anecdotal observation. I don't know if it's actually the case)." I'm just not sure where you would get this idea from or how there would be any way to prove or disprove it. Like I said, I am unaware of any other kickstarters that had price X for KS period and then price Y for a short period after for people who wanted/needed to pledge with PayPal. So it seems a bit of a stretch to me that you are saying that companies are now just cutting to the chase with that pricing model, when there's no way to prove whether that is a model these companies are using or have even considered. Surely companies will account for paypal fees, but those can't be significantly different than amazon payment fees could they? Surely not enough to justify the price difference we saw in the Bones kickstarter.

 

I have backed a few different projects and the post KS price that I've seen has been the same as was offered day one. For instance recently Drake Wargame had a paypal period of over a week and prices were the same, just nothing counted toward stretch goals. Same with Dwarven Forge they are still as of right now allowing people to increase their pledges at the same rate, but maybe not paypal. These are recent and I fully agree things probably have changed over the course of a year, but I'm not sure I see the systematic changes you seem to be suggesting and I can't think of any examples in the past year besides Bones where there was a price increase. Bones was indeed a very good deal (although I would say Drake was about on par for Metal and Resin miniatures coming in at $2.75 a piece including 7 80mm models). Kingdom Death was another big one that allowed pledge increases at same rate until just April 7th, but I can't find if they offered a small paypal window after the kickstarter. I'm glad Reaper did and that they pioneered it some sense, but it doesn't change that I regret that I didn't get the same price as everyone else, effectively paying a $80 surcharge over someone who pledged a few days before me.

 

Like I said, I'm happy with what I got, but do feel regretful (thread topic) about the way things shook out post-KS. Sorry if I come off as defensive, but I do feel you attacked my legitimate comment right off the bat in your response and were a bit dismissive in the way you tried to educate me on the matter. I apologize if that wasn't your intention, but I'm not sure how else to read your comment.

Edited by OMGoblins
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To begin with, it's not that Reaper put in a mark-up after the Kickstarter, it's that they were offering things at a special deep discount during it.

 

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure, but I think there has been kind of a shake-out of how Kickstarter is done. Reaper did okay, but a lot of people who offered big discounts during their Kickstarters got clobbered by unexpected charges, taxes, and Amazon and Kickstarter taking out their cut of the money raised. I

 

It seems like more people are offering things more or less at their later prices without a discount (but this is just an anecdotal observation. I don't know if it's actually the case).

 

And that's why you see more people offering things more cautiously, at higher pledge levels than last year.

 

And it is only within the last year as far as I know. The paypal later adjustment thing seems a very recent development. And Reaper's pledge manager was highly experimental and a new thing at the time, seven months ago.

 

Potatoes, Potatoes. You can say it was a special deep discount during the KS, but that's not the wording Reaper themselves used, so that's more personal opinion than anything. They specifically said 20% more, not that it was 20% less during the 30 day's of official KS.

 

I'm not trying to bash them as I am very happy with the opportunity I did get, but it's a bit much to suggest that the few people who found out about the kickstarter after the initial 30 days during the paypal post KS period were going to cause Reaper to lose significant money. They didn't limit all post-KS purchases to the increased rate because they let people who got some kind of pledge in during the 30 day window to keep the original prices throughout the entire extended period. There were many people who went from pledging 1 vampire box to increasing that to 2 or more during the post KS period, all for $100 each rather than $150. Same with add-ons etc. I would be very surprised if that didn't account for the vast majority of post KS increases in orders.

 

So I find it a little "eh" that you may be suggesting that somehow because I didn't know about the KS right away, pledging literally *days* after it ended and *months* before my (or early pledgers) money was spent and the machinery was ordered or the castings were finalized, that I was somehow taking advantage of the company or somehow was a much bigger risk to them than those who hopped on early? That their pledge increase after the KS ended is somehow more safe than mine, despite my money being just as real.

 

As for "It seems like more people are offering things more or less at their later prices without a discount (but this is just an anecdotal observation. I don't know if it's actually the case)." I'm just not sure where you would get this idea from or how there would be any way to prove or disprove it. Like I said, I am unaware of any other kickstarters that had price X for KS period and then price Y for a short period after for people who wanted/needed to pledge with PayPal. So it seems a bit of a stretch to me that you are saying that companies are now just cutting to the chase with that pricing model, when there's no way to prove whether that is a model these companies are using or have even considered. Surely companies will account for paypal fees, but those can't be significantly different than amazon payment fees could they? Surely not enough to justify the price difference we saw in the Bones kickstarter.

 

I have backed a few different projects and the post KS price that I've seen has been the same as was offered day one. For instance recently Drake Wargame had a paypal period of over a week and prices were the same, just nothing counted toward stretch goals. Same with Dwarven Forge they are still as of right now allowing people to increase their pledges at the same rate, but maybe not paypal. These are recent and I fully agree things probably have changed over the course of a year, but I'm not sure I see the systematic changes you seem to be suggesting and I can't think of any examples in the past year besides Bones where there was a price increase. Bones was indeed a very good deal (although I would say Drake was about on par for Metal and Resin miniatures coming in at $2.75 a piece including 7 80mm models). Kingdom Death was another big one that allowed pledge increases at same rate until just April 7th, but I can't find if they offered a small paypal window after the kickstarter. I'm glad Reaper did and that they pioneered it some sense, but it doesn't change that I regret that I didn't get the same price as everyone else, effectively paying a $80 surcharge over someone who pledged a few days before me.

 

Like I said, I'm happy with what I got, but do feel regretful (thread topic) about the way things shook out post-KS. Sorry if I come off as defensive, but I do feel you attacked my legitimate comment right off the bat in your response and were a bit dismissive in the way you tried to educate me on the matter. I apologize if that wasn't your intention, but I'm not sure how else to read your comment.

Before Reaper's KS (as far as I know), Paypal after the fact wasn't an option.

 

KS was designed to give a relatively short window to raise funds. It's not a pre-sale or advertising campaign. To be able to get anything after the KS (and before released to normal retail channels), one had to get in on the KS in the timeframe.

 

Thanks to Reaper (again, as far as I know), other KS'ers are offering the paypal option after the fact. Could Reaper have offered you the deal at the same price and still made a profit? Yes, but that is not how KS is supposed to work. I'm glad you are happy with what you got; I understand you wish you could have more. Such is life, alas.

 

-Dave

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Before Reaper's KS (as far as I know), Paypal after the fact wasn't an option.

 

 

 

KS was designed to give a relatively short window to raise funds. It's not a pre-sale or advertising campaign. To be able to get anything after the KS (and before released to normal retail channels), one had to get in on the KS in the timeframe.

 

Thanks to Reaper (again, as far as I know), other KS'ers are offering the paypal option after the fact. Could Reaper have offered you the deal at the same price and still made a profit? Yes, but that is not how KS is supposed to work. I'm glad you are happy with what you got; I understand you wish you could have more. Such is life, alas.

 

-Dave

 

Yeah, like I said many times I'm happy and thankful for the opportunity to help kickstart the Bones line and receive a good deal.

 

My original post was on topic. I get everyone loves Reaper, but a little criticism shouldn't be met with a dismissive attitude. I could have simply said "I regret not getting in on the Kickstarter before it originally ended" I said that and explained why and threw in a "I'm still very thankful but still don't understand the decision on X". Not that I don't understand how Kickstarter works or what it isn't (I'm well aware it isn't a pre-sale, pre-order, marketing campaign or anything of that nature).

 

I've never complained about the KS before, I just thought it was on topic and worth mentioning since it is the only regret I have. I still got 60% off retail. I'm still psyched to get my Bones whenever they arrive, I still contributed over $300 to Reaper through the same channel under the same "contract" if you will as everyone else, I am just getting a different ROI. I'm not crying about it, but I do regret that fact. I don't resent it, I'm not leading a crusade through the streets or anything :;): .

Edited by OMGoblins
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