Completed Dungeonstone 3D Terrain - Caves and Caverns set

[Finarfin]

US only except one of the pledges (a limited one), more explanations inside

 

What do you think?

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/715498539/dungeonstone-3d-terrain-caves-and-caverns-set

 

[The Faceless King]

I hate to sound rude, but that looks rather terrible . . .

[Serpine]

While it doesn't have the same texture quality of some of the better cavern tile sets I've seen (in particular, the flooring looks more appropriate for a dungeon or castle then a cavern) I don't know if I'd go all the way to terrible.

[Sanael]

Terrible is not what I would say. It's functional and attractive enough.

 

I don't know why I keep looking at these, though. We had several hundred dollars worth of DF at one point and hated using it, no matter how cool it looked. There's no effective way of creating "fog of war" during a dungeon crawl, low visibility behind high walls, and the prep time (either pre-game or during a session) is prohibitive. Not great for our group.

 

That said, I know people who love the modular dungeons, for whom these work very well. As in all things, YMMV. And I think these are presentable enough, in this ks.

[pinkymadigan]

Seems to me with the fact that they use larger pieces, you could construct 'on the fly' easier. The heroes open a door/turn a corner, a few seconds later you've built the next area.

 

DF pieces are smaller, so that does add to build time.

[Finarfin]

I´m planning on a mix on hirts arts/DF/istar for important places, printed/drawed dungeons for the rest and some kind of battlemat for things on the fly.

 

 

On this ks, I lack more pledge levels, more options. And the price ... is too expensive for me.

But It doesn´t have international shipping, so, why I care? : P

 

The work itself is not horrible IMHO

 

 

[dariustad]

This KS has, intentionally or not, placed itself in a massive lack-of-interest and backers-with-available-money "hole;" and, I doubt it will make as much money as they hope. Hot on the heels of Dwarven Forge (DF) (who ceased taking expanded orders on Monday of this week) and Itar's amazing accessories and terrain, they are the third-in-a-row of similar projects. The major problem? There's nothing really new here.

 

The other major problem? DF announced during their project the intention to create a second KS project to open up their various cavern molds into the Game Tiles product range. People are now saving for that project, even if it takes DF a year or more to get it up and running. I know I am.

 

It's really a matter of bad timing.

[SamuraiJack]

We used pieces of cardboard to cover up dungeon sections to simulate fog of war for foam terrain boards..

[buglips*the*goblin]

I'll never need more than "the immediate tactical area". We've played 20 years on a piece of liberated plexiglass 2' x 4' with hex paper taped underneath. I can set up in that space in marginally more time than it takes to draw out.

 

My plan currently is to get some ruins, a zuzzy verdant field mat, 2 woodland scenics tree kits, make some hills using Talespinner's method in The Craft, and dungeonstone's deluxe set. A set of caverns would be handy. Some printable pdf templates for roads and rivers. And there we are. 3D!

[Jordan Peacock]

Terrible is not what I would say. It's functional and attractive enough.

 

I don't know why I keep looking at these, though. We had several hundred dollars worth of DF at one point and hated using it, no matter how cool it looked. There's no effective way of creating "fog of war" during a dungeon crawl, low visibility behind high walls, and the prep time (either pre-game or during a session) is prohibitive. Not great for our group.

 

That said, I know people who love the modular dungeons, for whom these work very well. As in all things, YMMV. And I think these are presentable enough, in this ks.

 

"Low visibility behind high walls" is the thing that keeps getting me. I've got a friend who enthusiastically makes lots of Hirst Arts scenery for board games and RPGs that looks GREAT in camera shots, but in actual game play it's next to impractical to use, because:

 

1) Seated players keep complaining that they didn't see a miniature or token, etc., that was "hidden" behind a wall. Unlike miniatures wargames, where everyone prowls the table with tape measures, players tend to anchor themselves to a chair, with character sheets and snacks pushing them even further away from the miniatures area, and not to get up to lean in for a better look.

 

2) Sculpted walls mean a space where you can't really "draw in" a gap to make a passageway. What looks great as a piece tends to limit utility in actual play.

 

Before the Hirst Arts cavern molds came out and rendered much of my effort redundant, I actually put together some modular cavern tiles with foam core for a base, air-dry Stonex clay to make "stony" flooring, and then a combination of broken Hirst Arts mis-casts with bits of air-dry clay and dripped plaster over them to make more organic-looking walls and clusters of stalagmites, plus the occasional "mineral pool" (as an excuse for a spot of color). I still occasionally use them for convention games, where it'll be new and fresh to the players (and they won't get tired of me recycling the same pieces over and over). However, for HOME games, I find it a lot more practical to have floor tiles that just describe the FLOOR. I learned the advantage of that from Advanced HeroQuest, a long time ago.

 

Basically, by having some shapes that represent the floor where the heroes can stand, based on cork board, mat board, foam core, or perhaps even insulation board (if you want more 3D depth for pits and such), you can spell out the area, but you leave the "walls" to be just whatever area of the table you haven't covered with tiles. The walls are implied by the absence of a place for the mini/character to "walk" to. A standing archway or doorway can serve as a shortcut to indicate spaces where a termination of the corridor doesn't mean a wall, but rather "area yet to be explored."

 

The occasional vertical decorative piece such a few stalagmites might be nice touches as obstacles and decorative elements to remind the players that they're in a 3D environment despite the 2D representation, but doing relatively little to block line of sight (at least, nothing more than a large MINIATURE would do, standing in the same spot).

 

For this reason, I get a whole lot more use out of the textured FLOOR pieces from the Hirst Arts Castlemolds than I do the walls or blocks (which are often featured in the "dungeon-building" tutorials as creating walls that go well over the height of the minis). A nice bonus is that they tend to stack up nicely for storage.

 

One exception would be with the Hirst Arts sci-fi "industrial edge" set, which does a nice job at abstractly representing walls, at about a half-inch or so tall, making it still quite easy to see the minis and tokens on the other side.

 

If I saw a cavern tile set that put some work into detailing the FLOOR features (e.g., a few decorative features here and there such as loose pebbles in the cracks, a mineral pool/puddle here or there), and had wall sections that were no more than a half-inch tall or so (not counting special removable features such as doors or lone obstacles), I could see the value in that.

 

Here, however, it looks like what detailing there is on the floor is rudimentary at best, and the walls are overly tall -- but also under-detailed for how much height is involved. With walls being as tall as they appear to be, I'd want to see some stalagmites, mineral deposits, the occasional mineral pool, maybe a fallen boulder, etc., against the walls here and there, to give some visual interest -- not just a generic "rough texture." If the same pieces are going to be cast over and over, then it's all the more reason to put a little more work into the masters, I think.

[Dungeonstone]

 

If I saw a cavern tile set that put some work into detailing the FLOOR features (e.g., a few decorative features here and there such as loose pebbles in the cracks, a mineral pool/puddle here or there), and had wall sections that were no more than a half-inch tall or so (not counting special removable features such as doors or lone obstacles), I could see the value in that.

 

Here, however, it looks like what detailing there is on the floor is rudimentary at best, and the walls are overly tall -- but also under-detailed for how much height is involved. With walls being as tall as they appear to be, I'd want to see some stalagmites, mineral deposits, the occasional mineral pool, maybe a fallen boulder, etc., against the walls here and there, to give some visual interest -- not just a generic "rough texture." If the same pieces are going to be cast over and over, then it's all the more reason to put a little more work into the masters, I think.

 

A few clarifications...

 

The wall's height on our Cavern pieces (while slightly variable) is generally only 1.5" in height and does in fact match up to the wall pieces of our standard terrain.

 

 

The impression that they are "overly tall" is simply an illusion created by a combination of perspective and the slope of the wall facing.

 

As to the appearance of the models, this was actually by design.

 

For example, not every cave/cavern adventure is set in a watery location and filled with sedimentary features such as limestone deposits and water pools. Some cave based adventures are set in mountainous, volcanic or arid locations more appropriate to igneous or metamorphic stone and where wet looking, sedimentary stone details would appear considerably out of place.

 

You should also note that this is just the beginning of our KS drive. There are several decorative as well as functional accessory items lined up for potential inclusion in these sets via stretch goals which have yet to be revealed. Many of which are designed to help quickly alter the general appearance of our basic set into something considerably more customized and detailed.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Dungeonstone

[dwarvenranger]

Actually I like the design of the walls, but not the floors. I've made a few custom "dry cavern" pieces for myself. I have the HA molds and besides not necessarily wanting to have a cavern formed by water, the pieces get rather repetitive. Are there any plans to make the walls separate from the floors?

[Dungeonstone]

There are three frestanding walls already in the basic set and the 2nd stretch goal is for another, and while they are not literally walls separated from the wall and corner tiles, the freestanding pieces are sculpted in the same style as the fixed piece walls.

 

Also, I am not I repeat not, hinting that a freestanding wall add-on pack may be planned as part of an unlockable goal later in the Kickstarter..

 

[Baphomet69]

Eh...kinda looks like melted pink foam or plastic to me.

[Berik]

I actually think it looks pretty nice, though I'd prefer the floors had a 'rougher' finish to enhance the caves look.

 

Being international and having already backed Dwarven Forge and Itar's Workshop makes this a bad fit for me. It's interesting how things often seem to come in waves.