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Bones international orders question re: ticker


Darkmatter
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i cant understand some questions... i think that all packages (US and not US) are being sending by USPS, so i cant understand why USPS can accept 800 packages at day if these packages are for US Customers, but need a truck for not US Customers...

 

US and Canada are going UPS not USPS.

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Some kind of official update on the ROW-status would be really appreciated.

 

I don't frequent this forum that often now, and from what I am reading here ROW is halted.

 

So if this is correct, then I think it would be an important update. I'm having a vampire+Cthulhu+Khaladrax pledge (Germany), and I'm not exactly sure if/when I should start to worry. Having a simple update what is going on would stop that (just say there is a problem, best to say what is the problem and what is being done to end it or when it will being done).

 

I fought you have learned something out of past problems (that sharing information is a good thing), but (at least from my perspective) it hasn't really changed. [The problem isn't that there is a problem. The problem is that there isn't really that much communication about that problem. Needing to hunt down such import information in the middle of some forum threads or Kickstarter comments just doesn't really work.]

 

I'm not a Reaper Peep, but here's what I've absorbed through the forums / KS comments:

 

Last I saw (Thurs/Fri of last week), RoW wasn't leaving the docks until USPS can schedule the requisite supply of trucks to ReaperHQ...but having seen a handful of overseas addresses go by in the past few days, am operating on the assumption that there's at least one pallet for RoW waiting for the truck to show up. It's not a huge facility, so that could also be playing into how much is or isn't already staged.

 

Canada is in limbo until the issue of the rejected orders can be cleared up; I think the orders have all been repacked [thought I saw Bryan say something about that] and are waiting the return of the FedUp rep to certify that it won't happen again. It's also been mentioned that it's a byzantine, complicated set of paperwork, which I can guess slows things down a bit there.

 

Given my interactions with Reaper over the past 10 years or so, there's no doubt in my mind that the only way they won't drop everything and go all-hands-on-deck to get RoW and Canada out when either situation clears up is if they're so close (say, 50 orders or so) it'd be more trouble to resume than to finish.

 

Until the third parties get a move on, though, Bryan's stuck between fire and gunpowder...with customers understandably upset that things haven't gone as planned, and trying to light a fire under the third parties bottle-necking things.

 

The MO to date has been no news means no new developments. What I can say for certain is that KS fulfillment is consuming every second of free time down in Denton. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few packing lists in the wild with 'EP'...Ed Pugh, one of the founders...on it. They've even got Matt (Clark) and Kit (the webmaster) out on the floor packing boxes in their free time. I have no doubts in my mind that nobody's taking this more seriously than Bryan; dude cancelled his vacation and is working on his birthday to get things one step closer to dealt with.

 

 

But to gather that information you need to hunt it down. The following information is the we got from the Kickstarter updates:

 

5/6: Canada's shipping shenanigans, waiting for China

5/14: Still waiting for China

6/10: Most stuff is here, shipping starts really soon

*6/17: Last address change remainder [* Not a Kickstarter update, but another piece of easy obtained information]

6/20: Shipping on the way (Countdown started)

(6/21: Problem with countdown traffic)

 

So from this information everything should moving fine (minus possible Canada; but from what I have read on the forum Canada is moving. Or is it? I haven't really the time to try to figure it out.) Instead it seems that international orders have some kind of problem. That it is somehow possible to get this information somewhere is I in my opinion not enough (and it isn't really that easy to scan the forum and especially the Kickstarter comments for the information that is relevant). It should be no problem to make a short update with that information. But from what I read there are >3000 ROW shipments left. That is a significant amount of people that do not necessarily have any clue about those problems.

 

Again: I can understand problems (problems happens, things go in the way, etc.).

What I can not understand is not communicating about problems in a way that reaches most people that are affected by them. If you think that problem solves itself really fast than I'm fine to wait a bit to announce it, but from what I read this problem is known since over two weeks and may persists for an unforeseeable amount of time.

 

 

I'm sorry to say this, but at the moment I am really disappointed about the communication level.

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I do trust Reaper that they are trying very hard to be fair to all their customers. I appreciate this not least because I'm aware that there are some 'domestic' customers who found the idea that non US customers might get delivery before them appalling. That said, you know, ZerosPalencia: that is a good question! One that rather deserves an answer.

 

 

Edit: there you go! apparently it is not just Canada using UPS but the U.S. too. So it's just us RoW in the tender clutches of the USPS.

Edited by Heretic
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Also, no Reaper/Bryan on the KS comments the last two days... no lunchtime updates as usual.

 

that of course means it's 100% of the time spent on shipments, but the RoW backers are getting (rightfully) restless.

 

I mean (as an RoW, does it show?), how long can it take to get a bloody truck from Dallas to Denton? USPS is postponing 3100 parcels? Missing out on an income like that? Running the risk that your customer is going to send those 3100 parcels via UPS or Fedex or DHL (not happening, I know, but USPS doesn't)

 

Those 3100 parcels will yield between 20 bucks and 61 bucks each (not counting the huge parcels).. averaging say 40 bucks... that's 120.000 dollars for USPS, not small pocket change I imagine...

 

Anyway, my ranting isn't helping one bit, but I'm getting a bit frustrated and sharing the 'feeling left out as RoW' in this KS. Not per se Reaper's fault, although some extra comms ("we have no news, but just wanted to tell you we're still pushing with USPS. We feel your pain") or finding the right buttons to push with USPS would help!

 

One would think that the USPS would care about such things, and likely the top brass does, but in my experience, the local folks who you have to work with to get anything done, really don't care that much and will get to you when they get to you. It doesn't affect their pay, why bother moving faster. In a lot of towns, the postmaster acts a bit like a king in charge of his own little country. For all we know they could be dragging their heels because they are not happy that Reaper chose to use UPS for the US customers when they usually use USPS for normal business. Frankly, we just don't know what is going on with them, but it is starting to look like the PO is playing games with Reaper.

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I do trust Reaper that they are trying very hard to be fair to all their customers. I appreciate this not least because I'm aware that there are some 'domestic' customers who found the idea that non US customers might get delivery before them appalling. That said, you know, ZerosPalencia: that is a good question! One that rather deserves an answer.

 

 

Edit: there you go! apparently it is not just Canada using UPS but the U.S. too. So it's just us RoW in the tender clutches of the USPS.

If there was anyone in the US who actually thought it appalling the Internationals might get their stuff first then they need to re-evaluate their priorities. We had to pay to pay shipping where they didn't, we deserve at least equal treatment, if not preferential. And they needn't have worried, because apparently USPS don't care for the pile of orders they're going to get a considerable amount of money for

Edited by BTJ
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I do trust Reaper that they are trying very hard to be fair to all their customers. I appreciate this not least because I'm aware that there are some 'domestic' customers who found the idea that non US customers might get delivery before them appalling. That said, you know, ZerosPalencia: that is a good question! One that rather deserves an answer.

 

 

Edit: there you go! apparently it is not just Canada using UPS but the U.S. too. So it's just us RoW in the tender clutches of the USPS.

If there was anyone in the US who actually thought it appalling the Internationals might get their stuff first then they need to re-evaluate their priorities. We had to pay to pay shipping where they didn't, we deserve at least equal treatment, if not preferential. And they needn't have worried, because apparently USPS don't care for the pile of orders they're going to get a considerable amount of money for

 

 

Strangely enough, there still are pockets of this mind-set in the U.S. It is a perversion of the concept of American Exceptionalism, where instead of being exceptional as a goal that we should strive for, they just feel we are and as such are entitled to special treatment. What's sad is that our Grandparents understood that that being exceptional is not an entitlement, but something that must be earned through hard work, yet more and more this seems to be lost on the current generations. So yes, there are still Americans that feel this way, but please accept that most of us do not and we fully understand that the rest of the world are just as human with the same rights and qualities as us. Honestly, the internet is helping a lot, as we get to talk to you ROW folks daily in a way that was never possible before.

 

I know the people at Reaper, and they are not the sort to discriminate against the ROW based on these sort of misguided beliefs. When they say it is because the PO isn't stepping up to the plate, you can believe them.

 

Andy

Edited by TaleSpinner
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Look, I'm the one most worst off here.

 

Not only do I not have my Bones.

Not only did I come so close when they did the books backwards and then switched the other way (making me last)

Not only am I now in limbo and waiting until ???? day

 

But I have to keep on the move because every other Canadian waiting is hunting me down for causing the whole mess with my curse to begin with. So at least none of you are being pursued by violent mobs!

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But I have to keep on the move because every other Canadian waiting is hunting me down for causing the whole mess with my curse to begin with. So at least none of you are being pursued by violent mobs!

 

Are you SURE that is the reason, or are they just trying to drive your stanky shoes out of their towns?

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i cant understand some questions... i think that all packages (US and not US) are being sending by USPS, so i cant understand why USPS can accept 800 packages at day if these packages are for US Customers, but need a truck for not US Customers...

 

It is always a question of money. If reaper send more international packages at once, they could get better prices for sending them. It is even possible that they make different trucks for asia, europe, africa and australia. If they have enough packages for a truck, USPS will pick it up.

 

USPS will do it again in the same procedure. They will send the ship container only if it is full. If it needs 3-4 days until it is full, the container will wait. There is a reason why international packages using a ship, need several weeks. Customs is one reason why it need little longer, but not the only one. Most of the time a container or truck wait until it is filled. I'm not sure if it is the real reason, but for me it is a logical possibility. With a cheap human transport plane it can happen that a flight take 18 hours from Hamburg to London, even if a direct flight should not need more than one hour. Same idea, more ports and more waiting time till the plane could start again.

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If there was anyone in the US who actually thought it appalling the Internationals might get their stuff first then they need to re-evaluate their priorities. We had to pay to pay shipping where they didn't, we deserve at least equal treatment, if not preferential. And they needn't have worried, because apparently USPS don't care for the pile of orders they're going to get a considerable amount of money for

 

 

We all paid for shipping. Oh, it wasn't a line item, it was included in the price for US customers, but we all paid.

 

If you want to go down that line, the question is whether the greater shipping you paid for is greater than the greater cost of shipping that you incurred. I'm pretty sure that wasn't true even before the huge USPS shipping increase.

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If there was anyone in the US who actually thought it appalling the Internationals might get their stuff first then they need to re-evaluate their priorities. We had to pay to pay shipping where they didn't, we deserve at least equal treatment, if not preferential. And they needn't have worried, because apparently USPS don't care for the pile of orders they're going to get a considerable amount of money for

 

 

We all paid for shipping. Oh, it wasn't a line item, it was included in the price for US customers, but we all paid.

 

If you want to go down that line, the question is whether the greater shipping you paid for is greater than the greater cost of shipping that you incurred. I'm pretty sure that wasn't true even before the huge USPS shipping increase.

 

From what I understand, the price of the Vampire (and add-ons) included enough to cover domestic shipping.

Everyone paid that.

For international shipments in Kickstarters, there is often an additional shipping cost. Often this additional cost is more than enough to pay for the shipping, without having to "dip" into the shipping mark-up that was put in place for domestic shipping.

 

Whether Reaper was kind enough to partially offset the cost of international shipping, I can't say, and I don't recall seeing anyone from Reaper saying so (Since I do not have a memory like an Elephant and haven't read every thread here, I am quite willing to be proven wrong - and I wouldn't be surprised that Reaper would do so).

 

What I can point out is that there is a perception amongst internationals that they pay more than their fair share for shipping. This is regardless of which company is domestic (I am involved in Indiegogos based in Europe, US based Kickstarters, and even one by a Canadian company - but as it has it's distribution set up in the US, I have to pay international shipping rates - and I pay international shipping on all of them).

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I certainly won't argue that there is such a perception. When you consider the extra handling necessary for shipping out of country, I suspect that perception is incorrect, especially after the recent postage increases.

 

Further, I'll note that I've skipped non-US projects because of shipping costs (money, time, and uncertainty are all costs). The fact that I think they're probably fair, reasonable, or both doesn't mean that I'm necessarily willing to pay them. For me, it's about whether the all-in price for what I'm getting (including factors for risk and time value of money) is one I'm willing to pay.

 

FWIW, if I didn't live in the US, I'd be frustrated right now, too. Though I'm pretty sure that the most efficient process would have been to start shipping with 18 items* in the US and move outward. ^_^

 

* Totally not special pleading. It's purely a coincidence that I have 18 items. Really.

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Bottom line is that international shipping is expensive and a hassle, no matter if it's US to Canada, Canada to US, US to Europe, Europe to US, etc, etc. The only exception to that may be between the EU states, but that is outside of my experience.

 

I had to send a $90 part from my office in Denver to a customer in Australia yesterday to get her Canadian built equipment up and running. The least expensive shipping option I could find was $72, but what was really frustrating is that the supposed economy shipping options were actually more expensive than the priority option I ultimately chose.

 

Even with priority, it will take a week for her to get her part. That's assuming no problems. And her C$90 part will probably wind up costing her closer to A$300 by the time all is said and done.

 

Since I have to deal with this stuff on a fairly regular basis, I know most overseas companies are either charging a fair price for shipping to US or eating part of the cost. Those are both reasons I don't buy much at all direct from foreign companies - it is easier for them and me if I can get it through a distribution channel.

 

I feel for both the RoW backers and Reaper on this. Especially Reaper - I only have to deal with one or two international shipments at a time, and never more than once a week and consider that a PITA, while they are dealing with 1000s that need to be shipped at once.

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Actually, the most efficient process is to send from lowest time needed to send to highest. That way the average waiting time is lower. This doesn´t take anything more into account as the "I paid more so I have to be first" and others problematics so... take a pinch of salt with this.

 

In another topic, the really really efficient process would be starting with ROW spanish orders and from that.

 

And even then, I´m sure I wouldn´t be the first XD

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