Jump to content
Baphomet69

Request for a minute of Reaper's time

Recommended Posts

Hi KruleBear,

 

Also check out the archives. Casket works #1 has a lot of the fluff in it. http://www.reapermini.com/Casketworks

Just went through the early ones and they have some good, if difficult to read, stuff! Thanks!

 

I note too that Apocalypse predates, and is therefore a recursor to, Warlord.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Warlord works off of a d10 system for a reason. It may seem swingy but in actuality it's statistically very stable. I know this because a statistical fanatic helped put the system together. I may be missing the point on the 2d6 train of thought but I can tell you that working in increments of 10% is very stable and easy to modulate. Any game with dice and chance will be somewhat swingy but in Warlord each faction has the ability to negate much of the swing if you build to that purpose. Whether through massive number of attacks, massive MAV's, buffs, a combination, etc.

Let’s play a quick theoretical game of craps. A roller rolls an 8 do you bet with or against the roller? All things being equal I bet you bet with the roller even though your five chances of success are against eight chances of failure. So let’s play the d10 equivalent on a 0 you win on a 1 or 2 you lose. Now how do you bet? The percentages of what wins or loses are close but I’m willing to bet you would wager against the roller using a d10. You see why I hate the RAGE d10 system is that on average you’re more likely to roll failure than success and I super-duper hate that.

 

I’m aware that the game has a way of negating the swinginess. It’s why I primarily take troops with MAV 5 or better and RAV 4 or better. This creates predictable lists and really nullifies the amount of troop choice in this game. Mainly because the 21 point Isiri Warrior sucks next to the 30 point Ice Demon. What I get for those 9 points is huge: 2 points of MAV, Cleave, Swing-through, another DT, and the ability to be summoned. Why would I ever take those lame troops? That’s right I don’t unless I’m demoing the game and trying to lose. (I used the Darkspawn as an example but similar choices exist in every army.)

 

On the subject of defensive strikes - During playtesting we tried a ton of different ways to do defensive strikes from allowing ALL strikes against any opponents in b2b to 0 allowed. We found that for speed of play allowing the full number of attacks to be used defensively was the best choice. The combat to me seems like a real fight where every moment people are trying to kill each other as opposed to "You tried to kill me and when I get to go next I will try and stab you back. .. if I am still alive".

But unless you overwhelm the opponent and roll well that ever happens. My experience is melee is mutually assured destruction. It’s why almost every game I play that is a Pitched Battle there is only 1 or 2 models left on the board and that is always because of some lucky rolls and not tactical acumen. This leads us to …

 

Initating a charge vs receiving - There is a HUGE advantage to being the aggressor in a melee situation in Warlord. One of the very most famous instances of this is when 7 Bondslave survivors rushed Rauthoros and brought him down in one melee. This was when we tested the much dreaded Darkspawn Daisy Chain tactic.The charge plus support bonuses gave them a fighting chance against the monster to which they succeeded brilliantly, unfortunately they didn't receive those because they were under the effects of a spell that made them mindless but it did give them Martyr so they still got +2 but had to die afterwards. If they had RECEIVED a charge from Rauthoros, even all 7 of them at once, it's unlikely any would have scored a hit because they would have had only a 10% chance to hit instead of a 50%. The long and short is that the game rewards for aggressive play. 3 units charging one unit usually results in the charged unit's death and a wound or two possibly on the aggressors. Some SA's make charging a unit unpalatable (FIrst Strike/Pike) but the advantage is still to the attacker as they get to dictate who takes a spear in the eye. Setting up a good charge and maximizing support and #MA is one of the things I like best about Warlord. If you don't believe me on this I would be glad to take you on anytime and show you the difference in receiving the charges or giving them :)

What you have shown is that you were lucky or fighting Rauthuros on his last two DT. Rauthuros just kills 4 dudes every turn. The Bondslaves had a modified MAV of 5 which means they needed an 8+ to hit him unwounded. 7 guys get 7 attacks which means on the average you could only do two tracks of damage to him unwounded. Rauthy lives and they die, or you rolled stupidly good and mutually assured destruction. Hmm sounds like like Rauthy would have faired the same either way.

 

SA’s that make charging unwise? Are you MAV 4+? No? Don’t care. You have a better chance to miss than hit. Also I love it when people assault me first because it almost always means their few models get to tango with my entire force. As I said stand and wait is just as viable an option which is bad.

 

Ranged units - Ranged units are pricey for a reason you are right. That was something else that was tested extensively. Since Warlord is a melee skirmish game I believe the intent was to err on underpowered archers versus over powered. That being said though, archery units are far from underpowered. Just like if you choose to make melee a focus for your list so to must you build your list to accomodate for archers particular strengths and weaknesses. There are builds for each faction that can quite effectively highlight the brutal power of ranged attacks. One of the favored is the Ivy Crown archers for the crusaders. With Lady Jehanne in command of 10 archers and an elite for bless you now have a unit that will consistently put out 10 RAV 6 shots or RAV 5 at long range. That's pretty fierce and will make short work of many soldiers. Couple them with Lady Devona and you now have access to Whirlwind to keep enemies in disarray and unable to approach. Throw in a couple of troops for a picket line (like wardogs with their Short SA) and you now have a very defensible firebase from which to black out the sky.

I have a similar build with Dwarves. The problem is once engaged in h2h they are crap. I now build forces solely designed for turn 1 alpha strikes and nullifying missile troops. Now I chew through a force like that like a lawn mower. Why should I take 27 point Merc x-bows when for three points more I get Okuran who can conceivably be in b2b on turn 1, which nullifies deflect bonuses and hitting at 1 better than the x-bows? The better way to make missile troops less powerful was to nerf range not RAV. Currently they are overpriced mooks who die too easily.

 

All in all a ton of testing went into the various ways Warlord could be configured. I won't speak to CAV or Reich as those games both have dynamics I am unfamiliar with but I can tell you that the deeper you dig into Warlord, the more elegant it seems to become. I've only found one broken list in this new edition and believe me I excel at finding the broken in game systems. . .well most systems in general. And even though it's a broken list it's still not entirely broken, it has to be played the right way or it's defeatable as easily as any other list. Even after years of playing it with no revisions or anything I am STILL finding new and interesting builds and combinations for the factions. Just wish I had more time to test my theory crafting for practicality ha!

Actually the deeper I delve into this system, which I playtested, the more problems I find. On the surface the game feels elegant but that wears off the deeper you go. The main issue with the game is I never feel outfought. I feel outdiced. I feel I lost not because of bad decisions but because of bad rolls. Lists boil down to what group of heavy hitters do I use to kill my opponent. The flavor may change but it is usually down to three to four killer models with back-up.

 

Now I’ll add some caveats. First this game plays better with missions, and I love this game as a Dungeon Crawl game. Second if you and your friends aren’t out for blood or playing nuclear escalation then it is fun. The latter is why we don’t play it much around here anymore. Finally for this game’s genre and price point it is a pretty good little war game.

 

My primary gripes are around the thought that this isn’t a serious war game and what I mean is this game isn’t really supported by Reaper. Because Reaper doesn’t really support this game the rules should just be free. Cowboys and Gunslingers is a great game because it is the best free cowboy game on the market.

Edited by psyberwolfe1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi KruleBear,

Also check out the archives. Casket works #1 has a lot of the fluff in it. http://www.reapermini.com/Casketworks

Just went through the early ones and they have some good, if difficult to read, stuff! Thanks!

I note too that Apocalypse predates, and is therefore a recursor to, Warlord.

No problem. The printed versions are definately easier to read...or i am getting old ;). I Just bought Warlord, so am unfamiliar with it.

 

One driver for getting Apocolypse, was that i was assembling a skeleton army for Warhammer (started 20 years ago and still not done). The dang WFB rules were changing faster then i was painting. I liked the simpke Apocolypse rules and loved the Dire Dead race...self aware skeletons with no need for stupid Vampires to control them...very very cool.

Edited by KruleBear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...