Spongey Bones models?

[gregferrell]

 

My Kaladrax head and tail tip are spongy, but the rest is solid. I've also had the issue with giant's weapons though. They are so soft, i think i am going to have to deeply drill and pin them. to get them to stay straight.

If drilling and pinning are a chore that you do not particularly look forward to (I am weird enough that I often enjoy that kind of thing), then it may interest you to know that in a few of the other threads (or a few times in the same thread - I am too brain dead to chase it down) have said that heating and cooling the area seems to remove some or all of the rubberiness (may require more than one boil and cool session for larger pieces).

 

Great tip, ill try that. Thanks!

[buglips*the*goblin]

Just opened Big K.

 

 

Seriously? This is what your complaints are about? That's a very liberal definition of "spongey".

[sethohman]

Just opened Big K.

 

 

Seriously? This is what your complaints are about? That's a very liberal definition of "spongey".

I had him assembled and sitting on the table before I saw this complaint. I went back, and on second fell, it is a bit softer, but nothing to complain about. Didn't even notice it while assembling.

[buglips*the*goblin]

It's within the range of consistency from the First 29. Same with C'thulhu. It's unequivocally not the disaster it was made out to be in this thread, and the only recommendation I can possibly give to unsatisfied people now that I've seen the "problem" in-hand is that Bones may not be the product for you, and you may wish to explore an alternative figure source that could bring greater satisfaction. Because if this is a dealbreaker, Bones can only ever make you unhappy. Some relationships just aren't meant to be.

Edited July 22, 2013 by buglips*the*goblin

[Bob the Inquisitor]

It's within the range of consistency from the First 29. Same with C'thulhu. It's unequivocally not the disaster it was made out to be in this thread, and the only recommendation I can possibly give to unsatisfied people now that I've seen the "problem" in-hand is that Bones may not be the product for you, and you may wish to explore an alternative figure source that could bring greater satisfaction. Because if this is a dealbreaker, Bones can only ever make you unhappy. Some relationships just aren't meant to be.

 

 

This is exactly the malicious, shortsighted attitude I was describing. The more people like you try to "help" Reaper, the bigger rift you create between the sycophants and any new customers Reaper might like to sell to.

 

Besides, it seems to me like the problem at hand on the board is that some people simply can't grasp the idea that products made in multiple batches might have occasional defective mixes. But then, in some people's experiences, where there's smoke there's a whiner who just doesn't get that the self-warming house is working just fine.

[buglips*the*goblin]

My Kaladrax is exactly as described in this thread.

 

There is nothing wrong with my Kaladrax.

 

Please explain how, if you hate this material and consider it useless, you can be made happy.

[Pingo]

 

It's within the range of consistency from the First 29. Same with C'thulhu. It's unequivocally not the disaster it was made out to be in this thread, and the only recommendation I can possibly give to unsatisfied people now that I've seen the "problem" in-hand is that Bones may not be the product for you, and you may wish to explore an alternative figure source that could bring greater satisfaction. Because if this is a dealbreaker, Bones can only ever make you unhappy. Some relationships just aren't meant to be.

 

 

This is exactly the malicious, shortsighted attitude I was describing. The more people like you try to "help" Reaper, the bigger rift you create between the sycophants and any new customers Reaper might like to sell to.

 

Besides, it seems to me like the problem at hand on the board is that some people simply can't grasp the idea that products made in multiple batches might have occasional defective mixes. But then, in some people's experiences, where there's smoke there's a whiner who just doesn't get that the self-warming house is working just fine.

I believe there was already some explanation of how different molds necessitated different textures of plastic, for example more complex shapes needing more flexibility and thus a pvc with more plasticizer in the mix.

 

I do not see any evidence that the mix was defective, merely that it was adjusted for the needs of the individual molds. The skull and tail tip of the Kaladrax model were made more flexible. This does not seem to rise to the level of inherent vice, as Robert Benchley once put it.

 

I am sorry that you are dissatisfied with your product, but dissatisfaction does not mean that the thing you are dissatisfied with is defective.

 

I thought that buglips' description of the situation was fairly gentle. Those who know him know he is rarely sarcastic and has a heart of pure marshmallow. We also know how much he tries to match people with products they would be happy with.

 

If he said perhaps Bones were not for you, I am certain it was not with malice.

[buglips*the*goblin]

That's true, it wasn't.

 

I compared my Kaladrax head as reported here (also C'thulhu's). Also the other anomalies reported.

 

I compared these against the 82 I painted from the First 29 pre-KS Bones.

 

This is normal behaviour. My werewolf is just as bendy. I can tuck Flit's wings (all five Flits) under his base with one hand.

 

But Kaladrax's body? Now that is an anomaly. Even the thin bits aren't as flexible as normal Bones. It's much more rigid.

 

While the possibility exists that there are models out there exhibiting significant variance from the norm, what's been noted in this thread appears, in every way I have been able to test, exactly the same as what I have here. And that, I can tell anybody for a straight-up fact, is just how Bones are. Most of my pre-KS ones are like it, except maybe the Purple Worms.

 

So if it's normal, and you don't like it, I can't see any way it's likely that you'll ever like it. Although you might. I did, once I got over the initial shock. But bendy Bones are par for the course.

[jlblack]

It would help if some of the folk with the more rubbery or floppy Bones would post videos of those qualities being demonstrated on their Bones. I've gone through my shipment a number of times, and I've yet to find any with the "excited Muppet arms" effect. I don't dispute that some have run across that, and I'd be interested in seeing it demonstrated.

[Bob the Inquisitor]

Pingo, does this not seem condescending to you?

 

Just opened Big K.

 

 

Seriously? This is what your complaints are about? That's a very liberal definition of "spongey".

 

 

This thread has been full of posters snidely claiming that the problem was with the customer and not the retailer. When the posters received their Bones, they admitted that the pieces in question were different from other Bones models, but then blamed the customer for having a problem with Bones when all pre-KS Bones minis fit within a much narrower range of floppiness. That is insulting. If you take a moment to step outside this little circle je--echo chamber and see what people outside this forum are saying (such as at Dakka), you will see that the attitude of the posters here is keeping away the majority of posters who do have a problem with their Big C and Big K Bones.

 

And, really, if you consider yourself a fan of Reaper, you are doing the company a huge disservice by silencing what you perceive as dissent or negativity. It's important for issues that might harm the reputation of the company itself to come to light where said company's employees will read it. If a lot of people supported the Bones KS based on a favorable opinion of the pre-KS Bones product (which we did), and pledged toward the staggering 3.4 million dollars that made all this possible based on faith in the company continuing its tradition of excellence (which we did), then any issue that generates as much notice, even concern, as unprecedentedly-soft Bones pieces can and will be taken as a disappointment or failure of the company to live up to its promise, if said failure is not dealt with by the company. If you keep telling the people who helped pledge $3.4mil that they are the ones who are at fault for assuming post-KS Bones would be like pre-KS Bones--if you really think Bones is "just not for" a noticeable chunk of Reaper's most loyal supporters--what do you you expect the effect of that to be on the next KS or on newcomers who only know about Bones because they heard about "quality issues"? You are literally telling people not to buy Reaper products or to (these quotes mean paraphrasing speech, not your specific words) "deal with it" when they have questions.

 

Why do you want to ruin Reaper's reputation by making it look like they put out cruddy product that they won't stand behind? Doesn't Reaper want their minis to "be for" everyone?

 

Now, you asked for a video, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-izhO2OefUE'>

here is one.

 

You claim that there is no evidence that there were any bad batches... What? Really? Have you looked at your cowgirl's nose? Did you miss the many miscast faces, miscast hands, etc? Have you not heard the people who stated that they compared their models to their buddies' models and identical models had different levels of firmness? You think it's unreasonable to assume there were QC issues in mixing up batches of plastic when there have been QC issues for each and every stage of manufacture, packing and shipping?

 

If you can't see how such blind, unreasoning defense of Reaper's operations makes this thread, and by extension Reaper themselves, look bad, maybe you are the one who has the issues for a change.

 

 

Now...

 

For the record, I haven't even asked for my Cthulhu to be replaced. I just asked Reaper if the head was supposed to be like that and if they had any recommendations. However, my wife will be the one painting Cthulhu, and she has made it clear to me that she does not want to have to hold Cthulhu's tentacles while wet-blending the paint on them. Wet paint and fingers don't work together for her. She's a perfectionist who is still, after years, not "done" painting her High Elf Dragon or Carnifex, and the last thing I want is another barrier between her and the hobby of painting miniatures. That's why I want suggestions to harden his floppy bones or to find out if I have an extra-floppy Cthulhu with the possibility to get that can be painted without fingerprints, and not just to be told that there is no problem, I am the problem, Bones just aren't for me despite my having loved every Bones model I have owned before the KS. That unexpected response was just ...I can't say it here, but it's a bagful.

 

I will be painting Kaladrax, and I intend to drybrush him to within an inch of his unlife. Hopefully boiling him will make his horns a little more compliant.

 

And no, I have not painted Big C or Big K, and will not until I get official word back from Reaper, just in case. It is silly to expect people with issues to "use" their defective, maybe even replaceable, models before finding out if they are keeping them.

 

I love 99% of the models I have received in this KS and will in fact be recommending Bones to many of my wargaming friends, so don't read my criticism as an attack on the company or its products. I simply want Reaper's big models to be the best they can be, and to find out if there is a problem or if Reaper really did just shoot themselves in the foot by making a $40 model and a $75 model that "just aren't for" a vocal minority (?) of their customers, the very people who spread positive word about the company. Personally, I expect that Reaper will be much more open to the idea of making their customers happy than you lot seem to.

[buglips*the*goblin]

You've been nothing but hostile since you came into this thread, while the rest of us (that you called sycophants) tried to run down what the problem was, specifically, to see if a resolution could be found before Reaper had time to look at it. Or, failing that, to create a raft of data so they could then more quickly assess the issue.

 

Every single person who came in to help test this out came to the same conclusion - which was the opposite of yours. You offered no additional information except to continue to complain that it wasn't what you wanted and that we were dismissive, snide, and mean.

 

I think the problem here is the attitude you've taken, an attitude you started in with right away. It's a little late to complain now if people are beginning to get a bit testy back when you came out of the gate with personal attacks on the community.

 

To be blunt, yes, I do think you're just whining. I didn't at first, but I do now. I don't think you can be pleased. I don't even think you want to be pleased. You're not contributing to a solution, but seem to be heavily invested in continuing your complaints.

 

Now if you want to start over with a little less sandpaper, then maybe we can work together to find out if additional anomalies remain to be discovered and addressed. But right now, frankly, with the attitude you've put on from the start I'm not inclined to help very much, and certainly not inclined to take your word for it that your C'thulhu and Kaladrax are drastically different from the rest of ours.

[buglips*the*goblin]

To address that video - that's completely normal behaviour for Bones. One is stiffer, two are more bendy. This is the same range we saw in the First 29. Some are bendy, some are stiffer. Absolutely normal.

 

The Wehrkind Spongy Factor is not an anomaly. It is common, and has been common for the line.

Edited July 23, 2013 by buglips*the*goblin

[Bob the Inquisitor]

To address that video - that's completely normal behaviour for Bones. One is stiffer, two are more bendy. This is the same range we saw in the First 29. Some are bendy, some are stiffer. Absolutely normal.

 

The Wehrkind Spongy Factor is not an anomaly. It is common, and has been common for the line.

 

 

I've had the Bones models as long as you have. I know the normal extent of the Bones range. I believe I even informed you about the Bugbear being more floppy than the skeletons, so yes, I am aware of what Bones is supposed to be like. Cthulhu is outside that range, whether or not the minis in the video make that clear.

 

And Buglips, I only posted in this thread because you were so hostile to people like Eilif who noticed thay had a problem. Believe it or not, dismissing someone else's concerns and implying that they are to blame over and over again, either through their ignorance or malign motivation, is actually considered hostile. You were not trying to figure anything out but how to shift any flaws that any Reaper mini might have onto another. When people respond to someone having an issue with "I don't have that problem", it adds to the discussion. When they respond "you must not know how Bones works/have unfair expectations/spurious complaints," it chills any productive discussion. And when many posters post that it's not a problem because one can just hold the tentacles still when needing to hold the tentacles still is the problem, they are making excuses for the company because they just want to find some way to justify the company's every mistake at the expense of the average customer.

 

How is telling people that they don't understand how Bones works "trying to rundown the problem"? Be honest with yourself.

 

To use a perfectly-bad meme, Buglips, you were the demons.

[buglips*the*goblin]

We knew from months back that we would see a lot of complaints about Bones just because they weren't what people expected. By default, if somebody reports an issue, that is the very first thing we have to eliminate as a factor. It's also the easiest to solve. As soon as we eliminate that, then we move on to isolate it more.

 

Now however you choose to interpret this, and you have consistently chosen to interpret it in an aggressive way, that's your business. I conisder it irrelevant. I don't care how you interpret it. I want to know if there's a legit problem, and get all the info I can, and offer what solutions I can.

 

You mentioned the misshapen faces thread. Look at the difference between that one and this one. Immediately a problem is evident, everybody agrees it's evident, there we are. Neat and done.

 

But in the midst of these early Kaladrax reports, with nobody offering much detail, you jumped in like we're all up Reaper's butts and they can do no wrong. You drew a line in the sand, and despite the growing body of evidence that there is no problem you stuck to this conforntational attitude and continued to make attacks against the community.

 

That's your problem, not mine. Now we can continue this pointless exercise, or we can move on. It's up to you. Either you produce some compelling evidence that there is something drastically abnormal with your Bones the rest of us don't see, or you begin to acknowledge that there may be no problem and you are wrong.

 

But right now, while I remain open to further information, I do not see any abnormal Bones, flexible or not (and mine are equally flexible) except for Kaladrax's tail and Wyrmgear's wings as the outliers.

[trystangst]

There is no way Cthulhu's head can be cast as a single piece if it was made of a stiffer material. Reaper has said that the "softer" feel of some parts is intentional. Now that may be unacceptable to some, but it's not a flaw, and it's not going to be changed.