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Spongey Bones models?


Eilif
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I don't get it.

 

I don't have Kaladrax, though I wish I had ordered him. I DO have Cthulhu, and while his tentacles are flexible, they're not much more so than the Bones skeletal spearmen. There is some flexibility in the Bones products, particularly so in small ankles and weapon parts, but this is easily fixable; I heat the figure with a hair dryer, bend the item in question to the desired position, and dunk it in ice water. It sets up nearly instantly and stays there. Trick I learned when I was into HeroClix.

 

Bones ain't much different, flexibility wise, than HeroClix or other plastic figures. Or am I simply missing the issue because none of my figures is what I'd call "spongy?"

 

 

I'm glad to hear yours was in better condition. That tells me that this problem could be a batch issue, and that there will probably be a satisfactory outcome for everyone.

 

 

 

I did compare Cthulhu's tentacles to the skeleton spear. The tips of the long ones and some of the thin ones on the side are even more flexible despite being the same size or bigger. Honestly, though, I think the skeleton's spear is less floppy than my bugbear's club. Anyway, the issue came up because my wife and I were discussing how she would paint Cthulhu, and we both noticed that the tentacles were going to be a problem. She is a better painter than I am (she blends; I just slather it on or drybrush), and she has an issue with his tentacles, so it's not just a ham-hands issue.

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Well since this thread is heavy with speculation and second hand accounts, and light with actual first hand experience, I decided to weigh in with some.

 

I took Kaladrax's much maligned head and gave it a good soap and water wash.

 

I took P3's Umbral Umber and thinned it with some 70% Isopropyl Alcohol.

 

I sprayed the trouble spots on the head (horns and jaw).

 

I proceeded to bend and twist them in ways that no player or owner should ever do.

 

The paint shows no signs of flaking, cracking, or rubbing off.

 

kalat1.jpg

 

kalat2.jpg

 

"...thinned it with some 70% Isopropyl Alcohol..." Is P3 a water-based paint? Can you thin any water-based paint with Isopropyl Alcohol?

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Based on my joyful experience in going through my shipment of Bones which arrived today, I think Wyrmgear himself confirms that there ARE different types of plastic being used for their various different qualities.

 

It's quite obvious that Wyrmgear's various pieces are made of different plastics, particularly the wings. Based on how different they are, and how good they look, I would say this was a deliberate choice. Which means it's very likely that other models have used slightly different formulations of plastic for various reasons, as Kay indicated. I don't have Kally, so I can't report any more than that.

 

On a related note, as someone who has done technical support for a couple decades now, there is a very important factor that makes it easier for a company to track down a problem more than a mere quantity of complaints will.

 

It is the quality of the data received - "It's broken" is never ever as helpful as "It doesn't work when I do this" is. Comparisons to a known condition is especially helpful, particularly if it can be used to recreate the potential problem. FREX, "it's no more bendy than a skeleton's spear" or "I could use the wing to bend the horns" is a lot better quality data than "it's spongy". Spongy is a perceptive thing that may be different for each person, whereas bending the horns with the wing is something Reaper can reproduce and decide if it is normal, or not.

 

Bottom line - a thousand complaints of "It's spongy" is not going to be as helpful to Reaper as a hundred, or even 50 people reporting back exactly how a specific part responds to a specific stimulus will be.

 

I am not pointing this out to trivialize anyone's complaint, only mentioning it because I can't even count the numbers of times I've had someone chew me out because I can't fix their problem without data they won't provide. A lot of people don't seem to understand that if they take an actual interest in helping to solve the problem they're complaining about, it will almost always be solved faster than if they just sit back and complain.

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Acrylic paint is water based, but the medium is a plastic resin emulsion. Once the water evaporates, the plastic sets into an irreversible film.

 

The acrylic plastic is alcohol-soluble. I have used rubbing alcohol to melt old acrylic paintings off of panels I wished to re-use, and I have used it to strip paint off minis.

 

It never occurred to me to use it as a paint thinner, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

Mind you, it seems an unnecessary complication to me. But then, I have very little experience with acrylics and airbrushes. I do not think it would appreciably weaken the paint film. Psyberwolfe, who is more experienced in this than I, says it does weaken the film.

Edited by Pingo
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Alcohol as thinner and airbrushes do not play well. Alcohol is a solvent and ruins most acrylic binders. Don't believe me mix a little alcohol and paint in a jar let it sit for half a day and watch how the paint turns into a gummy mess. Now imagine the paint breaking down like this in your airbrush. Yeah cleaning that out is a nightmare.

Please use AB Medium, (Golden or Liquitex are both great) water (the recommendation of Badger Airbrush CEO Ken Schlotfeldt)

I know a lot of modelers thin their acrylics with alcohol with great results; however, it is bad advice with so many better alternatives available.
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"...thinned it with some 70% Isopropyl Alcohol..." Is P3 a water-based paint? Can you thin any water-based paint with Isopropyl Alcohol?

 

 

I've used it on GW paints, P3 paints, and Reaper paints. All water based.

 

Interesting. I wonder if the different alcohols (ethyl -- isopropyl) act differently (that gummy outcome is undesirable). Does it give a longer working time?

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"...thinned it with some 70% Isopropyl Alcohol..." Is P3 a water-based paint? Can you thin any water-based paint with Isopropyl Alcohol?

 

 

I've used it on GW paints, P3 paints, and Reaper paints. All water based.

 

Interesting. I wonder if the different alcohols (ethyl -- isopropyl) act differently (that gummy outcome is undesirable). Does it give a longer working time?

 

Not really - The paint is dry pretty much the minute it hits the mini. The only time I've had to deal with "gummy" is with old paints (like GW 10+year old). If I take a nice new bottle of P3 and thin it with isopropyl, it sprays on nice and evenly.

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As anyone tested Wyrmgears wings to see if they take paint like the rest of the bones? They are the opposite of the Kaladrax bits and are apparently fairly hard.

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I noticed that my cthulhu head is quite softer than the other pieces. I would describe it as rubbery rather than spongy, like there is more plasticiser in the mix for that piece. I have not taken as close of a look at the other pieces montioned.

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I found the same as Tim with my Cthulu head. The rest of my pieces seem in good order. I'll be going through everything again come tomorrow, though. I'll have a little time in the afternoon (I hope) to do some more inventory to ensure everything's good.

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I personally don't see what the problem is with Kaladrax having a bendy head. His mouth opens just the right amount so you can put a party member's mini in there, for when he uses his special power where he grabs someone in his teeth and shakes them like a dog breaking his prey's neck. Seems perfect to me!

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Keep in mind, the plastic used for Bones is PVC. PVC comes in all sorts of flavors from hard stuff like you find in plumbing parts all the way to stuff that is soft and flexible enough to wear. Most Bones are somewhere in the middle, while things like the clockwork wings are closer to the plumbing fitting formulation and things like the head seem to be closer to the PVC goth clothing formulation. They should all take paint in the same manner - that is a function of the PVC polymer chain shape (think of it like Velcro hooks, while acrylic is more like thight curls of the loop side of velcro).

 

The actual choice is made by the engineer. If a part has more undercuts, it will need a softer plastic in order to eject from the mold. If a part is undercut free, they can use a nice rigid formulation. The rigid formulation is cheaper by a bit and allows those wings to stand upright without sagging. You probably have some cross contamination you could say as they switch from one formulation to the next while working through the production orders.

 

The aside on paints, dont forget that not all acrylics are water based. Tamiya uses alcohol, same with Gunze for their acrylics. Valejo has some alcohol based metallic acrylics. Thinning those with water can cause problems...the same gumming that can happen with alcohol and water based paints.

 

Also, strictly speaking...both the alcohol and water are solvents. Water is after all referred to as the universal solvent.

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