Loss of detail on the Faces of Bones Minis

[SamuraiJack]

Given the overall quality of the sculptor's work, I'd say he just had bad luck with this one.

 

I agree. I was more disappointed with this one because I was more excited about this one based on the concept art, especially when the new two blade elf got scrapped for time concerns..

 

RE: bowie knife: concept art was rapier and stiletto.. not sure how that translated to this unless the narrowness just wasn't conducive to bones..

[eriochrome]

The female dragonslayer looks ok. Face is at least reasonable, hair and belt definite show the detail loss. I think that the more you compare the Bones to either the master sculpt or metal versions the more disappointed you will be until you remember that the metal versions total out to something like 1200 dollars compared to the 100 paid in the kickstarter. Would I suggest anyone buy the 400 dollar vampire box. Certainly not but could some find some reasonable models at good prices to use for tabletop play or painting practice certainly. The monsters are definately pretty good at this level since we do not have perfect mental images of what they should look like so we are more forgiving.

 

The rush through production also did not help the quality. They would probably be better off using mainly new sculpts for Bones once they really know the reproducable detail levels so that the sculptors keep the designs within those levels.

[smokingwreckage]

I have quite a handful of pre KS Bones and am perfectly happy with the detail. I'd like to finally get my Vampire box so I can compare!

 

I expect eriochrome might be right; It might be that pushing through so many minis in so short a time led to shortfalls in the mastering and manufacture.

 

Personally I wouldn't recommend the Vampire box just because it has too many miniatures with too much variety; you'll get better value for your dollar buying models individually. BUT if you just want one box to take you from zero to being competitive with someone who was around for the heyday of cheap boxed plastics (Space Crusade, Hero Quest, Battlemasters, etc) then the Vampire box is a great deal.

[AnneO'Leary]

I'm a painter, not a gamer and after reading this, I'm rethinking which BONES I'll get when they go online. I bought the female dragonslayer in auction to see if she lives up to what I need in a female figure. I'll know by Thursday. If I can't sell a painted female for the same amount as I can a metal female then I won't buy any of them.

 

I will get Orcs though!

[eriochrome]

I have both Michelle (Female Human Ranger) and Lindir (Elf Archer) from the Bones released after the kickstarter funded but before production. They are probably on the better side of the range of kickstarter bones for the faces and details. Some of the kickstarter ones look fine but enough do not to give reason to review what might have gone wrong in the mastering and production processes.

[smokingwreckage]

Anne, I imagine that metals and resins are going to be your best bet for painting and sale, if you're aiming high.

[mindfade]

IMEF: Reggie Van Zandt, is everyone gun barrels messed up or just mine? Found a picture of the metal one mine looks nothing like that.

[eriochrome]

IMEF: Reggie Van Zandt, is everyone gun barrels messed up or just mine? Found a picture of the metal one mine looks nothing like that.

 

The barrels themselves are fine but the barrel tips sort of form a mass where much of the defination is lost. I think pretty much ever bones has some noticable loss of detail. The more you look the more you find.

Edited July 9, 2013 by eriochrome

[The Dread Polack]

I've been through my quickly. They definitely vary in quality. So far, the ones I was looking forward to most look the best. I was a little disappointed in the cowgirl's missing nose. I don't know if I can fix that with my limited sculpting skills, but then I also don't have much need for cowgirls, so she's going to be down on the list.

 

Nothing egregious though, just a little flash and a little loss of detail here & there. Still well worth the price. Like most people are saying, I expect the quality to improve once the casting is done in-house.

[Pingo]

There are a few Bones figures deficient in the nose region. Damiel, Iconic Alchemist is one I haven't seen mentioned yet.

 

Most of them are just fine nosewise, so I think something must be just a bit off with those molds.

 

I figure adding a tiny dab of green stuff or liquid green stuff should fix it. Or just using paint and shading to freehand more of a nose.

[Nocturne]

Or just using paint and shading to freehand more of a nose.

 

That's what I was planning to do when I get mine, I'm not confident with my sculpting skills anyway so didn't want to leap right in with 28mm rhinoplasty

[redambrosia]

I went through all mine last night and had a good detailed look at them. They all had their chins, and only two were missing noses, the aforementioned Ellen Stone and Berkeley the Zombie Hunter (aka female Ash). I noticed quite a bit of mold lines and such, but nothing I'm not confident I can't fix. Juliette's finger's are gobbed around with mold lines, for example, but I'm sure I can trim that down and make them look like real fingers. Goldar still has a mold line on his head (metal version did too) but this one doesn't have one across his face. All in all, I think the bones I got have about as many issues as metal minis do, in terms of prep. It just depends on how anal you want to be.

[SaintRigger]

 

My Ellen Stone Cowgirl model is definite weak in details on the face both from the front and profile.

 

Ok, this is what I'm talking about; I've got these in both metal and Bones, so I can make a comparison. I just pulled out the metal one and compared it to the three Bones models, and I completely agree with this assessment. What's funny, is that it is mostly just the face where this figure has detail issues; she has several other areas that have very small, very fine detail that is replicated perfectly on the Bones model (the tie straps on her pistol holsters, the ammo on her belt, and the strings on her chaps are all perfectly fine between metal and plastic). If there are more of these out there, this would seem to point to an issue with this particular sculpt, if not in the mold itself, then the QC in China on what appears to be a problem spot.

 

~v

 

I'd like to echo this - I find the facial details on many models to be flat, and missing noses. I painted up Horace Jackson last night and he sticks out in my mind, but the bareheaded NOVA trooper also had some minor issues

[eriochrome]

First off let me say that I am happy with the value and quality of most of the Bones miniatures and that I expected some detail to be lost from the transition from metal to plastic. The idea is more about the mechanism of loss and why it seems to be noticed in certain minis more than others. Specifically we have seem that some models have essentially lost their noses which is a very thing to happen. We are very attuned to the proper appear of faces so missing noses show up pretty easy. These will be used as an example not the only issue during the discussion.

 

The noses appear to be missing in my models, the ones in the previews, and pretty much every cast of those specific models so it appears to be a mold issue. Now Reaper does not want models without noses and would like to have good molds since they plan to keep producing the models. The Bones can generate these level of details since most of the models do have noses. How did this issue occur?

 

It could be simply a bad machining job on the mold that slipped through QC before the mold was used for production runs. That is what I initially thought but then I was thinking more about it after seeing a nice comparison of metal vs bones at Constantly Risking Obscurity. He highlights the lost details of sharp edges on a crystal and such. Now Bones cannot capture those detail level consistently so you do not want to put them in the mold. Notice that none of the blades really have edges. If the edges where in the mold you would expect some places for the details to be there and other places not and end up with sort of distorted blade edges as details appear and fade that are near the threshold level.

 

Your master has details you do not want in your mold so how do you deal with this. Do you scan the model at high resolution and then either manual or with a program soften the details to a level that you think the material will capture well. With all the models manually editing them would probably take to long. You could do it with software if you have it and know how to use it pretty easily. For example you could take your high resolution 3d laser scan, then use a 3d Fourier transform and a high frequency filter to dampen high frequency components then inverse Fourier transform back into the model. Some of the fine details will be lost but the results should be pretty consistent.

 

Another option is just to scan the models at lower resolution. This has the issue that it is more like a hard filter and will essentially take things that are almost at the next position and round it down. Surface continuity conditions in these scans could also lead to additonal capturable details being lost in the transfer process. The nose is generally sticks out between to level points on either side so gets rounded down to make the surface smoother.

 

What do you guys think? Just bad QC on the molds or a problem in the conversion process.

[fanguad]

(post is redundant after thread merge)

Edited July 18, 2013 by fanguad