Painting sheer white stockings?

[AnneO'Leary]

I'm getting ready to paint #50118 Oktoberfest Fraulein and I want to do the sheer effect on white stockings.

 

 

Can anyone direct me to a tutorial on how to do this? I found video's for painting black sheer stockings, but none on how to paint white sheer stockings.

 

Thank you.

[trystangst]

Same basic idea. I've struggled with stockings a few times, but was able to get some success after asking a fellow painter how he handled it. Here's what he told me (just replace the black with white - the idea is to increase opacity at the "shadows", not necessarily make it darker):

 

Here's a good way to try it. Get your black, flesh, darker flesh and grey. Lay them out on your pallete and mix your sheer shades from there. Try basing in an intermediate shade first of grey, a little black and the darker flesh. This doesn't need to be thin maybe 1 to 1 with water. Then start layering up by adding more of the darker flesh to your base color until you are almost pure darker flesh in the thinnest areas and do the opposite for the shadows by adding more black. for the knees, ankle bump, tops of the feet, heels & shin use your flesh color mixed with the darker flesh. Make sure you mix a lot of the base color.

[Inarah]

I did it using the metallic white from the old Pro Paint line (pearl white?) and the one in the MSP line (can't think of the name of that one). Sophie Silver also works, if you have that from several Reapercons ago.

[AnneO'Leary]

Same basic idea. I've struggled with stockings a few times, but was able to get some success after asking a fellow painter how he handled it. Here's what he told me (just replace the black with white - the idea is to increase opacity at the "shadows", not necessarily make it darker):

 

Here's a good way to try it. Get your black, flesh, darker flesh and grey. Lay them out on your pallete and mix your sheer shades from there. Try basing in an intermediate shade first of grey, a little black and the darker flesh. This doesn't need to be thin maybe 1 to 1 with water. Then start layering up by adding more of the darker flesh to your base color until you are almost pure darker flesh in the thinnest areas and do the opposite for the shadows by adding more black. for the knees, ankle bump, tops of the feet, heels & shin use your flesh color mixed with the darker flesh. Make sure you mix a lot of the base color.

 

I'm not sure that I understand this. Where does the white for the stockings come in? Am I working down from white into shadows?

 

 

I did it using the metallic white from the old Pro Paint line (pearl white?) and the one in the MSP line (can't think of the name of that one). Sophie Silver also works, if you have that from several Reapercons ago.

I figured Pearl White would come in here as the top highlights. But I still don't know how to get the "sheer effect" with skin showing through a white stocking. Dark stockings or coloured stockings, I understand. Should I base in may darkest skin tone, then add very, very thing layers of white?

 

I'm still confused.

[trystangst]

Sorry - I didn't explain that well enough.

Instead of working from your nude flesh town down to black in the crevices, you want to work from your nude flesh tone up to white. So your high points (ankles, knees, top of thigh) would actually be your darkest, if that makes sense.

 

Flesh->lighter flesh->lighter flesh/light grey->light grey->white (roughly)

[Dilvish the Deliverer]

There was a sheer fabric tutorial a done a few years ago....

 

Ah, here it is: http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/35634-sheer-wiptutorial-finished/?hl=jahenna

 

While not stockings specifically, I think the technique should still be applicable.

 

Hope it helps.

[TheBucklandBrewer]

I usualy first paint the legs as if it wasn't covered, trying to include the different skintones I would usualy do.

Then I thin down my white a lot and cover the leg carefully till it has the white'ish 'shine-through' look, adding more white in folds or recesses.

(that's how I did this Frauline). I still struggle with the technique though, but I'm trying to look at lots of great examples from the best painters around (Mrika is my fav one for this techinique!).

 

Only with my latest mini I'm trying to blend in the skin-tones into the white (which is the technique Jen Haley uses on her DVD painting Akanka if I'm correct).

 

Covering skin with sheer fabrics is the hardest to me but covering clothes with another pattern such as the skirt on this Frauline is a little easier I think and it helps a lot to understand the way it works.

The fabric under the sheer (here the skirt) has it's own shadows etc. so the sheer fabric on top of it was first painted as if it wasn't there (just like I did the skin), even if the surface of that area doesn't follow the rest of the uncovered skirt, it's important to add some darker parts such as the inner folds (a bit like when you would paint on a flat paper where you would add darker parts to make it look more like 3-dimensional).

(I'm horrible at explaining right?)

 

The back of a Dark Sword mini I painted a while ago might help with what I'm trying to say...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/304574?browseid=5993938

 

I first did her dress, and painted the back part under the sheer fabric as if it wasn't there, painting it red while also adding the darker folds effect there. It does look pretty odd-weird at that moment though... (when I tried this, I felt like it would never work out well, but I was amazed once the white covered it partly...).

 

So, the way I do white sheer: ignore the sheer fabric as if it's not there (as if you want to fool the eye to cover bad-sculpted areas). Paint it like it's just a normal lovely lady's leg and add the thinned white at the final stage.

 

I'm still learning this myself though, so my work might not be the best example, but I do know exactly how I managed it... (and seeing my own one in your post makes me blush a bit

 

I'm still stuck on white only. I tried colored sheer fabrics a couple of times but I either had to switch over to non-sheer or white-sheer or throw the figure against a wall and jump on it till I was cooled down (out of respect for the designers and sculptors I never pick the last option).

 

Goodluck! ;-)

Edited July 10, 2013 by TheBucklandBrewer

[Pingo]

I would think there is some difficulty in this technique because the color of sheer nylon is an optical effect based on the physical characteristics of a knit fabric.

 

When we are looking at knit nylon or silk face-on we are looking through the holes in the knit, so the color is least intense and most transparent.

 

We see more of the color as the fabric curves away from us because we are seeing more of the fiber itself in the knit and less of the skin through the holes in the knit.

 

That's how you get the effect of legs "outlined" in a softly faded outline of the color of the nylon no matter which direction you are looking from.

 

Unfortunately, that means that painting such an effect is always going to be a compromise. You can make a figure that will look perfect if observed from a single angle only, but messed up from any other angle. Or you can make a figure that is "good enough" from multiple angles but not a perfect reproduction of stocking effects from any of them.

[trystangst]

I would think there is some difficulty in this technique because the color of sheer nylon is an optical effect based on the physical characteristics of a knit fabric.

 

When we are looking at knit nylon or silk face-on we are looking through the holes in the knit, so the color is least intense and most transparent.

 

We see more of the color as the fabric curves away from us because we are seeing more of the fiber itself in the knit and less of the skin through the holes in the knit.

 

That's how you get the effect of legs "outlined" in a softly faded outline of the color of the nylon no matter which direction you are looking from.

 

Unfortunately, that means that painting such an effect is always going to be a compromise. You can make a figure that will look perfect if observed from a single angle only, but messed up from any other angle. Or you can make a figure that is "good enough" from multiple angles but not a perfect reproduction of stocking effects from any of them.

Well said. Also applies to most mini painting techniques (NMM for instance).

[AnneO'Leary]

There was a sheer fabric tutorial a done a few years ago....

 

Ah, here it is: http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/35634-sheer-wiptutorial-finished/?hl=jahenna

 

While not stockings specifically, I think the technique should still be applicable.

 

Hope it helps.

 

I found that yesterday but the images are no longer there. I just went back and went all the way to the end and found a link to a tutorial that was short and very well done. So thank you very much for sending me back to that post.

 

 

I usualy first paint the legs as if it wasn't covered, trying to include the different skintones I would usualy do.

Then I thin down my white a lot and cover the leg carefully till it has the white'ish 'shine-through' look, adding more white in folds or recesses.

(that's how I did this Frauline). I still struggle with the technique though, but I'm trying to look at lots of great examples from the best painters around (Mrika is my fav one for this techinique!).

 

Only with my latest mini I'm trying to blend in the skin-tones into the white (which is the technique Jen Haley uses on her DVD painting Akanka if I'm correct).

 

Covering skin with sheer fabrics is the hardest to me but covering clothes with another pattern such as the skirt on this Frauline is a little easier I think and it helps a lot to understand the way it works.

The fabric under the sheer (here the skirt) has it's own shadows etc. so the sheer fabric on top of it was first painted as if it wasn't there (just like I did the skin), even if the surface of that area doesn't follow the rest of the uncovered skirt, it's important to add some darker parts such as the inner folds (a bit like when you would paint on a flat paper where you would add darker parts to make it look more like 3-dimensional).

(I'm horrible at explaining right?)

 

The back of a Dark Sword mini I painted a while ago might help with what I'm trying to say...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/304574?browseid=5993938

 

I first did her dress, and painted the back part under the sheer fabric as if it wasn't there, painting it red while also adding the darker folds effect there. It does look pretty odd-weird at that moment though... (when I tried this, I felt like it would never work out well, but I was amazed once the white covered it partly...).

 

So, the way I do white sheer: ignore the sheer fabric as if it's not there (as if you want to fool the eye to cover bad-sculpted areas). Paint it like it's just a normal lovely lady's leg and add the thinned white at the final stage.

 

I'm still learning this myself though, so my work might not be the best example, but I do know exactly how I managed it... (and seeing my own one in your post makes me blush a bit

 

I'm still stuck on white only. I tried colored sheer fabrics a couple of times but I either had to switch over to non-sheer or white-sheer or throw the figure against a wall and jump on it till I was cooled down (out of respect for the designers and sculptors I never pick the last option).

 

Goodluck! ;-)

It's so nice that you dropped in as it was your brushwork that sold me on this figure. Lovely to meet you.

 

I do understand what you are talking about now. I looked at your Dark Sword figure and that's a good illustration of the technique. Now I see where the optical illusion comes in. Paint what is covered first and then build up very, very slowly over the top in extremely thin layers. This will take some time for me to master and I'm guessing my figure will wind up being stripped more than once before I get something I can live with.

 

I like your basing on this figure-it's very creative. Also the basing on the Dark Sword figure is excellent.

 

Thank you so much for you time.

 

 

I would think there is some difficulty in this technique because the color of sheer nylon is an optical effect based on the physical characteristics of a knit fabric.

 

When we are looking at knit nylon or silk face-on we are looking through the holes in the knit, so the color is least intense and most transparent.

 

We see more of the color as the fabric curves away from us because we are seeing more of the fiber itself in the knit and less of the skin through the holes in the knit.

 

That's how you get the effect of legs "outlined" in a softly faded outline of the color of the nylon no matter which direction you are looking from.

 

Unfortunately, that means that painting such an effect is always going to be a compromise. You can make a figure that will look perfect if observed from a single angle only, but messed up from any other angle. Or you can make a figure that is "good enough" from multiple angles but not a perfect reproduction of stocking effects from any of them.

 

I see what you mean and I think the only way to deal with it is by use of zenithal lighting, which is something I've never tried before. If I did this correctly and then lit the mini correctly, would I then be able to get a good photo from any angle?

 

This is one of those techniques that may still be well above my current skill level. I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes.

 

 

 

 

[Sanael]

Trying things that are beyond your current skill is one of the best ways to get better...all advanced techniques are just different ways to apply basic techniques.

 

As for zenithal lighting...the unfortunate truth is that Pingo is right; we are using two-dimensional media to affect three-dimensional objects.

 

(quick aside...autocorrect thinks "zenithal" should be "genital." Glad I caught that, so it can be this humorous anecdote rather than an embarrassing typo)

 

Our chosen canvas (minis) is tiny enough that shadows don't fall properly; this is why we shade and highlight. Whether we're dealing with skin, or metal, or sheer fabric, directionality of light affect how we see "real" objects in a dynamic way we can't reproduce with static paint. Zenithal lighting helps, because most miniatures will be viewed with an overhead lightsource, but as soon as someone picks up the mini to turn it sideways the light changes.

 

But that's no reason not to try.

 

Here's another thing that may help with sheers and lighthouses for your painting. Grab a real nylon, or other sheer fabric. Even mosquito netting shows this property at the right distance. Stretch it with nothing behind it. Shine a light directly on the fabric; no show-through. Then, shine the light on an object behind the fabric; this should give a pretty clear view of that object. If you play with the distance between the fabric and the object, and with how tight the fabric is, you'll see different qualities of visibility.

 

When fabric is stretched very tight and directly touching an object, light is able to pass through the fabric and reflect back from the object; this is what happens with tights and hosiery. So look for places where the fabric doesn't stretch, but bunches, on the mini. Those places will read as opaque, and the stretched places will look sheer. If you keep this in mind, it will help your sheer painting read well from multiple angles...remember you're working with opacity/transparency, not light/shadow, with this technique.

 

I'm starting to blather a bit, I fear...but I hope some of this helps.

[Wren]

Another thread with a few tips on this topic: http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32188-painting-hosery/

[AnneO'Leary]

Trying things that are beyond your current skill is one of the best ways to get better...all advanced techniques are just different ways to apply basic techniques.

 

As for zenithal lighting...the unfortunate truth is that Pingo is right; we are using two-dimensional media to affect three-dimensional objects.

 

(quick aside...autocorrect thinks "zenithal" should be "genital." Glad I caught that, so it can be this humorous anecdote rather than an embarrassing typo)

 

Our chosen canvas (minis) is tiny enough that shadows don't fall properly; this is why we shade and highlight. Whether we're dealing with skin, or metal, or sheer fabric, directionality of light affect how we see "real" objects in a dynamic way we can't reproduce with static paint. Zenithal lighting helps, because most miniatures will be viewed with an overhead lightsource, but as soon as someone picks up the mini to turn it sideways the light changes.

 

But that's no reason not to try.

 

Here's another thing that may help with sheers and lighthouses for your painting. Grab a real nylon, or other sheer fabric. Even mosquito netting shows this property at the right distance. Stretch it with nothing behind it. Shine a light directly on the fabric; no show-through. Then, shine the light on an object behind the fabric; this should give a pretty clear view of that object. If you play with the distance between the fabric and the object, and with how tight the fabric is, you'll see different qualities of visibility.

 

When fabric is stretched very tight and directly touching an object, light is able to pass through the fabric and reflect back from the object; this is what happens with tights and hosiery. So look for places where the fabric doesn't stretch, but bunches, on the mini. Those places will read as opaque, and the stretched places will look sheer. If you keep this in mind, it will help your sheer painting read well from multiple angles...remember you're working with opacity/transparency, not light/shadow, with this technique.

 

I'm starting to blather a bit, I fear...but I hope some of this helps.

 

It helps a great deal and I will look at pics of women wearing silk stockings and do as you said with the light and a pair of stockings. The opacity/transparancy is almost backwards from thinking in light/shadow. It's a completely different mind set and just when I think I understand it, I lose the idea. I think the only thing to do is go ahead and try it just to see what happens. I also have to accept that this will take many failed attempts and maybe months to get a handle on. But I don't have to let people see my mistakes. I will keep those very, very private.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

 

 

Another thread with a few tips on this topic: http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32188-painting-hosery/

 

Hello Wren. I came across a previous thread where someone else asked this question last year I think. And from what I understand you taught this technique at ReaperCon. Due to life circumstances, I will never be able to attend a Con, but it is lovely to be able to communicate with you here.

 

I've bookmarked that thread and the articles that are linked to it.

 

Thank you.

[Wren]

I think white is the easiest colour to do this with, so I'm glad you're starting out with that!

 

Some tips I'm not sure I included in the other thread you read.

 

1. It's better to overdo it than underdo it with this and most painting effects. Go for a wet t-shirt effect if it helps you to push yourself towards that. What I mean is, if you just have a little bit of a pale tan colour where the cloth is taut instead of full on painting it to look like the skin on the figure but a little bit paler, it might just look like a shading colour.

 

2. Wrinkles are very helpful to conveying the illusion of cloth being over the skin. Cloth that's wrinkled is pulled away from the skin, so it's pure white and shaded with a different colour in that area, which helps demonstrate that it's cloth over skin rather than skin-coloured fabric. If the sculpt doesn't have wrinkles sculpted around the back of the knees or at the ankles, you can paint them in with a small white stripe, then a darker gray (or blue or whatever colour you're shading with) stripe right below it. Unfortunately it is very difficult to find pictures of stockings with wrinkles, but you should be able to find a shirt or something else to get the idea.

 

3. Use terms like sheer, translucent and transparent to search Google for examples. Once you're in Google image search, you can sort by colour to help get pictures of mostly white items. Note that if you have safe search off, you might get some naughty content with those terms!

[Suden]

 

Trying things that are beyond your current skill is one of the best ways to get better...all advanced techniques are just different ways to apply basic techniques.

 

 

It helps a great deal and I will look at pics of women wearing silk stockings and do as you said with the light and a pair of stockings. The opacity/transparancy is almost backwards from thinking in light/shadow. It's a completely different mind set and just when I think I understand it, I lose the idea. I think the only thing to do is go ahead and try it just to see what happens. I also have to accept that this will take many failed attempts and maybe months to get a handle on. But I don't have to let people see my mistakes. I will keep those very, very private.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

 

 

I know it might be a little embarrassing to share something that doesn't look great, but if you try something and it doesn't look right, this is a great place to post it up. No one around here will mock you for it, and someone might have some real insights if they see your mistakes and it might help you get on the right track faster. After all, you can be pretty sure that anyone doing it perfectly now messed it up themselves many times on the way to mastery. I've gotten some great advice after posting some of my messes.