Bones Kickstarter #2 Pre-discussion

[Orlando_the_Technicoloured]

Reaper didn't pay for the PDFs,

 

they were given by their respective owners who were on good terms with Reaper (& no doubt as advertising for their other stuff)

 

so they were zero cost options used to break up very large stretch goals

 

a win-win-win situation

[dispatchdave]

IIRC (and I usually do), the PDF stretch goals were thrown in because the stretch goals felt too far apart otherwise (as mentioned previously). I also believe they were freely offered by the company/people that owned that IP.

 

-Dave

[Wren]

My recollection matches what others have said - Reaper did not pay for the PDFs, and they were offered as enhancements, not alternatives, to the physical stretch goals. They were a nice bonus for those who would enjoy them, and could easily be ignored by those who didn't. In an ideal world, at least...

[Doug Sundseth]

So that raises another philosophical question:

 

How far away from the core of the project can you go without it being too far? (Let's assume a miniatures kickstarter.)

 

1) There's a boutique miniatures company that's a friend and who is willing to provide a free mini for each backer. That seems reasonable.

 

2) Most of these minis are used in RPGs, so a new set of RPG rules might be a good idea.

 

3) RPG gamers like to read fantasy books, so a fantasy book might be a good idea.

 

4) Gamers like junk food and junk food companies like to advertise, so how about coupons for Doritos and Mt. Dew?

 

5) Almost all gamers use dice, so a promo from a dice manufacturer could work.

 

6) Casinos use dice and have advertising budgets, so how about adding casino dice?

 

Assuming that each of those is paid for by the third-party vendor and the project runner incurs no additional costs (so it's "free stuff"), is any of those unreasonable? (For me the answer is "Yes", but the line isn't obvious.)

[buglips*the*goblin]

Up to 3, if at least related in some reasonable way. For example, Reaper provided some RPG rules as a free pdf and one of Matt Forbeck's Shotguns & Sorcery novels. The former is highly relatable, and while I'm not especially familiar with the latter it certainly seems to thematically match well with the Chronoscope minis. So I actually think the line is pretty clear.

[ApesAmongUs]

Reaper didn't pay for the PDFs,

 

they were given by their respective owners who were on good terms with Reaper (& no doubt as advertising for their other stuff)

 

so they were zero cost options used to break up very large stretch goals

 

a win-win-win situation

It depends, though. They wanted to "break up" a long stretch goal that was long for very legitimate reasons. So they put in what is essentially a fake stretch goal to create an impression with the customer.

 

But it's not a real stretch goal. Given the zero cost of the PDF, they could have just as easily added it in with the familiars or just thrown it in free at some random time.

 

That's the thing. No matter how you look at it, the whole point behind it was a little psychological manipulation and marketing - making things appear a certain way without changing the real substance behind what was actually happening. And, that manipulation worked for some people, but it backfired for others. It served to draw attention to something that might not have been such a big deal to people without the big flashing PDF neon sign.

[Doug Sundseth]

Up to 3, if at least related in some reasonable way. For example, Reaper provided some RPG rules as a free pdf and one of Matt Forbeck's Shotguns & Sorcery novels. The former is highly relatable, and while I'm not especially familiar with the latter it certainly seems to thematically match well with the Chronoscope minis. So I actually think the line is pretty clear.

 

Fair enough position, though it's not my position.

 

FWIW, I think adding dice would be as reasonable as adding an RPG and more reasonable than adding a novel. And I think all of them are distractions from a miniatures Kickstarter project. (Though Mountain Dew .... )

[Orlando_the_Technicoloured]

Up to 3, if at least related in some reasonable way. For example, Reaper provided some RPG rules as a free pdf and one of Matt Forbeck's Shotguns & Sorcery novels. The former is highly relatable, and while I'm not especially familiar with the latter it certainly seems to thematically match well with the Chronoscope minis. So I actually think the line is pretty clear.

I think it's even easier than that

 

does the KS company feel comfortable being associated with whatever 'extras' they're handing out if so cool

 

and can they genuinely offer it to every backer because if not problems will happen, so foodstuff and similar which will crash and burn in at least some customs offices are probably not smart

 

(that said any KS that offers me free snacks or dice why not, i'll take them)

[greyhaze]

So, it's pretty much presentation.

 

Option 1. Stretch #44 $75k = free PDF, Stretch #45 $100k = Familiars.

 

OR

 

Option 2. Stretch #44 $100k Familiars AND at $75k we'll throw in these free PDFs...

 

Maybe calling it a "bonus goal" instead of a stretch might've worked better.

[Girot]

I could be remembering it wrong, but I'm sure I read that Reaper feared that needing 100k to unlock the familiar set would cause some epic nerd-rage, so they split it into 2 50k goals using one of the PDF's.

 

Didn't really stop the nerd-rage though.

 

Every couple hours they need to post a drawing of some ultraviolence or throw out a reference to the Evil Empire. Kinda like throwing a mean dog a steak once in a while to keep it happy.

[Starlight]

 

 

How much was it to go in for one of every mini in Bones One? What about one of everything? (Case, etc)

 

That plus 50% or so will give me an idea of how much to set aside for Bones 2: Eclectic Boogaloo

I didn't do the exact math, but considering what I paid for mine and adding on the stuff I did not opt for (Nethyrmaul and Sophie being the big ones) I'd say maybe $250-ish for one of everything?

 

Missed only by half. Sooo close. It surprised me too.

 

Hmm, I was only counting figures (the post I was responding to did say "one of every mini"), and by "one of everything" I literally meant one of each mini, not getting extra sets of stuff.

There were two Sophies? Huh. The Kickstarter sculpt was not fantasy, not to mention far too expensive and "wrong" scale, so I barely wanted to count that one either. :)

But yeah, with paint kits and extra sets of minis that were already included then I can easily see how the cost would double from my estimate.

[SamuraiJack]

Wouldn't surprise me at this point if we got a Bombshell bones model as a stretch goal/bonus.. maybe a set of them? hard to say. Poots seems to be partnering Kingdom Death with everything these days and he is experimenting with PVC versions.. Bones Twilight knight anyone?

[klarg1]

 

Reaper didn't pay for the PDFs,

 

they were given by their respective owners who were on good terms with Reaper (& no doubt as advertising for their other stuff)

 

so they were zero cost options used to break up very large stretch goals

 

a win-win-win situation

It depends, though. They wanted to "break up" a long stretch goal that was long for very legitimate reasons. So they put in what is essentially a fake stretch goal to create an impression with the customer.

 

But it's not a real stretch goal. Given the zero cost of the PDF, they could have just as easily added it in with the familiars or just thrown it in free at some random time.

 

That's the thing. No matter how you look at it, the whole point behind it was a little psychological manipulation and marketing - making things appear a certain way without changing the real substance behind what was actually happening. And, that manipulation worked for some people, but it backfired for others. It served to draw attention to something that might not have been such a big deal to people without the big flashing PDF neon sign.

 

 

It was a minor stretch goal, but I don't see why it should be fake. Reaper set a dollar value at which point they would hand us all something more. That is pretty much the definition of a stretch goal. You are right that the thing was free to them, but I don't see why that should invalidate it.

 

All stretch goals are marketing tools already. A major part of building them up is to run up excitement and drive pledges towards the next highest level. There are plenty of Kickstarters out there that include what amounts to cheap, useless junk as stretch goals for precisely that reason. I don't always want the stuff (and don't always respond to it with pledge money), but I don't see a problem with it.

[buglips*the*goblin]

 

Up to 3, if at least related in some reasonable way. For example, Reaper provided some RPG rules as a free pdf and one of Matt Forbeck's Shotguns & Sorcery novels. The former is highly relatable, and while I'm not especially familiar with the latter it certainly seems to thematically match well with the Chronoscope minis. So I actually think the line is pretty clear.

 

Fair enough position, though it's not my position.

 

FWIW, I think adding dice would be as reasonable as adding an RPG and more reasonable than adding a novel. And I think all of them are distractions from a miniatures Kickstarter project. (Though Mountain Dew .... )

 

 

 

Thinking on it, there should be no goal in Bones 2 that is not at least a Reaper product. Ideally it should be all Bones, but a Warlord pdf or some Reaper swag could pass.

[Finarfin]

Well, not all the minis were included on the vampire, but were profitable add ons. So maybe the add ons are the ones to be used to separate stretch free goals.