Bones Kickstarter #2 Pre-discussion

[Dan Goodchild]

Bones are affordable and accessible. Fewer people seem intimidated by them.

 

Speak for yourself; my Kaladraxes scare the heck out of me. As does the prospect of painting them.

[Gilfander]

Well with almost a month since the flyer was released do we know anything 'new' about the next KS? I guess all we know is it's Bones, it's Kickstarter and it's this fall. Anything else? Has anyone discovered other information at any shows or by other duplicitous means? Thanks so much.

[TKD]

As long as it's a good value for a pledge, like the last one was, I'm in.

[DLMyst]

One thing that quickly became obvious to me at PAX was that there are A LOT of people out there who aren't yet part of the miniatures hobby with no knowledge of Reaper who are being drawn in by the Bones product. A lot of new folk were walking away from the Paint and Take with new minis purchased from the store. Many many many of these people had not even heard of the first kickstarter.

 

Considering that, and all the hobbyists who missed out on the first kickstarter, I expect there will be a high number of brand new folks on the next Bones kickstarter who'll need to be informed about managing their expectations.

 

True, but some of us from KS1 may feel like we have enough minis.

 

OK, to be fair, no mini painter ever feels like they have enough minis, but the wallet (or wife) may make us believe that we feel that way. I'm still on the fence for KS2. If this one is as good as the first, I probably won't back it. We'll see.

[Dan d'Lyon]

I'm confused DLMyst. If the next KS is good then you won't be backing it?

[buglips*the*goblin]

Goblin backwards logic is contagious.

[ApesAmongUs]

 

 

Reaper didn't pay for the PDFs,

 

they were given by their respective owners who were on good terms with Reaper (& no doubt as advertising for their other stuff)

 

so they were zero cost options used to break up very large stretch goals

 

a win-win-win situation

It depends, though. They wanted to "break up" a long stretch goal that was long for very legitimate reasons. So they put in what is essentially a fake stretch goal to create an impression with the customer.

 

But it's not a real stretch goal. Given the zero cost of the PDF, they could have just as easily added it in with the familiars or just thrown it in free at some random time.

 

That's the thing. No matter how you look at it, the whole point behind it was a little psychological manipulation and marketing - making things appear a certain way without changing the real substance behind what was actually happening. And, that manipulation worked for some people, but it backfired for others. It served to draw attention to something that might not have been such a big deal to people without the big flashing PDF neon sign.

 

 

It was a minor stretch goal, but I don't see why it should be fake. Reaper set a dollar value at which point they would hand us all something more. That is pretty much the definition of a stretch goal. You are right that the thing was free to them, but I don't see why that should invalidate it.

 

All stretch goals are marketing tools already. A major part of building them up is to run up excitement and drive pledges towards the next highest level. There are plenty of Kickstarters out there that include what amounts to cheap, useless junk as stretch goals for precisely that reason. I don't always want the stuff (and don't always respond to it with pledge money), but I don't see a problem with it.

 

Stretch goals also have one other, very important, purpose - paying for making stuff. See, when it's $50,000 to reach the next stretch goal, there is a linkage between getting that much cash and the cost of actually producing the rewards. Maybe it's a flat cost of writing a PDF, or maybe it's the cost of paying a sculptor, cutting a mold, paying for casting, and shipping a physical reward. But either way, the monetary difference between reaching the stretch goal and not reaching it matters. That money has a purpose.

 

For these PDFs, that wasn't the case. In reality, there was one big stretch goal that paid for adding the familiars to a bajillion vampire packages, and an illusion shoved in the middle. It's fake, because it doesn't serve the primary function of a stretch goal - paying for stuff.

[Darsc Zacal]

 

One thing that quickly became obvious to me at PAX was that there are A LOT of people out there who aren't yet part of the miniatures hobby with no knowledge of Reaper who are being drawn in by the Bones product. A lot of new folk were walking away from the Paint and Take with new minis purchased from the store. Many many many of these people had not even heard of the first kickstarter.

Considering that, and all the hobbyists who missed out on the first kickstarter, I expect there will be a high number of brand new folks on the next Bones kickstarter who'll need to be informed about managing their expectations.

 

True, but some of us from KS1 may feel like we have enough minis.

 

OK, to be fair, no mini painter ever feels like they have enough minis, but the wallet (or wife) may make us believe that we feel that way. I'm still on the fence for KS2. If this one is as good as the first, I probably won't back it. We'll see.

Fair enough, but I've sworn off kickstarters in general only to return because something new came up that I just had to have. That's what Reaper is good at. Making the deal on offer just too good to pass up regardless of the fact that you already have your own weight in plastic and metal minis waiting for you to paint in your bins of shame. Edited September 4, 2013 by Darsc Zacal

[Dadcubed]

For me this is my Bones II timeline:

 

00:00:00 - KS Begins

00:00:01 - Pledge 3 - 6 months of hobby budget plus some

00:00:45 Read the KS details

00:05:00 Post in comments / Hit F5 (refresh really I'm on an iPad)

 

Bring. It. On.

[SamuraiJack]

You forgot 00:50 Make pledge a higher level

[ttuckerman]

You forgot 00:50 Make pledge a higher level

No 00:45 Kickstarter goes down due to heavy traffic.

[ttuckerman]

 

 

 

How much was it to go in for one of every mini in Bones One? What about one of everything? (Case, etc)

 

That plus 50% or so will give me an idea of how much to set aside for Bones 2: Eclectic Boogaloo

I didn't do the exact math, but considering what I paid for mine and adding on the stuff I did not opt for (Nethyrmaul and Sophie being the big ones) I'd say maybe $250-ish for one of everything?

 

Missed only by half. Sooo close. It surprised me too.

 

Hmm, I was only counting figures (the post I was responding to did say "one of every mini"), and by "one of everything" I literally meant one of each mini, not getting extra sets of stuff.

There were two Sophies? Huh. The Kickstarter sculpt was not fantasy, not to mention far too expensive and "wrong" scale, so I barely wanted to count that one either. :)

But yeah, with paint kits and extra sets of minis that were already included then I can easily see how the cost would double from my estimate.

 

The only one in there that was a duplicate is Orcopolips! (except for the duplicates in vampire itself.) So just knock off $25. Still close to double.

[Gilfander]

One of everything including the case and no doubles cost me $397. I'm planning to save up about the same for this next one.

[kaosweaver]

You forgot 00:50 Make pledge a higher level

 

No doubt, I'm betting that we'll reach the 1 million mark faster than any other kickstarter ever. I'd love it if we crashed their servers again!

 

Reaper should have a special figure for all of the initial pledgers as a "benchmark" goal, if we pledge up to $1m faster than any other kickstarter, those who pledged to get there get the mini :)

Another "benchmark" goal should be for exceeding the number of pledgers as last time (and everyone gets the single mini for that one)

And, of course, a "benchmark" goal for beating the last KS total everyone gets another single mini.

And then, maybe, a goal to be the biggest KS ever (yeah, $10.2m seems a lot... even the biggest game one is a lot $8.5m)

[EvilJames]

 

 

 

Reaper didn't pay for the PDFs,

 

they were given by their respective owners who were on good terms with Reaper (& no doubt as advertising for their other stuff)

 

so they were zero cost options used to break up very large stretch goals

 

a win-win-win situation

It depends, though. They wanted to "break up" a long stretch goal that was long for very legitimate reasons. So they put in what is essentially a fake stretch goal to create an impression with the customer.

 

But it's not a real stretch goal. Given the zero cost of the PDF, they could have just as easily added it in with the familiars or just thrown it in free at some random time.

 

That's the thing. No matter how you look at it, the whole point behind it was a little psychological manipulation and marketing - making things appear a certain way without changing the real substance behind what was actually happening. And, that manipulation worked for some people, but it backfired for others. It served to draw attention to something that might not have been such a big deal to people without the big flashing PDF neon sign.

 

 

It was a minor stretch goal, but I don't see why it should be fake. Reaper set a dollar value at which point they would hand us all something more. That is pretty much the definition of a stretch goal. You are right that the thing was free to them, but I don't see why that should invalidate it.

 

All stretch goals are marketing tools already. A major part of building them up is to run up excitement and drive pledges towards the next highest level. There are plenty of Kickstarters out there that include what amounts to cheap, useless junk as stretch goals for precisely that reason. I don't always want the stuff (and don't always respond to it with pledge money), but I don't see a problem with it.

 

Stretch goals also have one other, very important, purpose - paying for making stuff. See, when it's $50,000 to reach the next stretch goal, there is a linkage between getting that much cash and the cost of actually producing the rewards. Maybe it's a flat cost of writing a PDF, or maybe it's the cost of paying a sculptor, cutting a mold, paying for casting, and shipping a physical reward. But either way, the monetary difference between reaching the stretch goal and not reaching it matters. That money has a purpose.

 

For these PDFs, that wasn't the case. In reality, there was one big stretch goal that paid for adding the familiars to a bajillion vampire packages, and an illusion shoved in the middle. It's fake, because it doesn't serve the primary function of a stretch goal - paying for stuff.

 

It certainly paid for stuff. I'm not sure why you would think it didn't. the fact that the stretch goal was free to reaper made it easier for reaper to pay for stuff. It's not deceptive or fake. things like that are indeed real stretch goals. They just aren't exciting stretch goals.

Edited September 5, 2013 by EvilJames