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Reaperbryan

PC types Vs Monster types

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I so want an aboleth in Bones. So, so, so want.

i think the aboleth goroloth is exactly the type of monster we want to see more of. bones would actually make it affordable to do, and if i could get it at a good price there is no way i wouldn't use a monster like that; i would find a reason.

better yet...mommy, and daddy and baby goroloth too. the whole family in bones would be too cool for words. :wub:

while i was pleased with the ratio of PCs to other types in this last KS, at this point more beasties and "warbands" of evil humanoids (cough-warlord-cough) would make me giddy.

Edited by vulture
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I count 141 Monsters, 108 (N)PCs, 6 Other and 1 Sophie.

 

I regarded classic evil guys as (N)PCs, the same goes for Giants. Swamp things, Orcs and similar are Monsters although one could use them as (N)PC. It mostly depends on the setting, that makes it a little hard to categorize them.

 

I am fine with the ratio, but would like to see some more units for PCs to command and some exotic monsters.

 

And of course some Sci-Fi (including Aliens and Power-Armored Troopers) and Vehicles.

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One major point - with over 1,000 monsters in just Paizo's 3-soon-to-be-4 Bestiaries, a huge chunk if those critters are going to be unused in a vast majority of campaigns - face it, Kobolds and Skeletons will be used by a majority of DMs but the Aboleth won't come up in better than half of them.

 

 

Bryan,

Please do not forget us olde school, OSR type players who want monsters from Monster Manual/ Fiend Folio type of stuff. But maybe that stuff is all in Paizo's beastiaries?

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I think there's still some low fruit beasts. Cavern Crawler, Charnel Grub, the 2nd version Mountain Troll with axe. That'd do Behir, Carrion Crawler, and an Olog-Hai-ish critter. Well of Doom begs to be scenery. But unless the troll is hard to transfer he seems an obvious bet. Looks good, nice thick parts, I need a few dozen to sow terror and lamentation...

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Can we get a couple Half-Giants? At least a male and a female and I'm not talking Hill Giant here. I'm talking about Frost/Fire/Cloud/Storm halfbreeds we can use as PCs. That would be most handy.

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One major point - with over 1,000 monsters in just Paizo's 3-soon-to-be-4 Bestiaries, a huge chunk if those critters are going to be unused in a vast majority of campaigns - face it, Kobolds and Skeletons will be used by a majority of DMs but the Aboleth won't come up in better than half of them.

 

As such, some monsters aren't good candidates, but a great many are. We think we have definitely covered the easiest low hanging fruit, and now it's time to look around.

 

But for me, understanding what YOU think monster means versus what WE think monster means is important. Because while there will decidedly be more monsters in future new molds, it won't be only monsters, and it won't be only things that everybody agrees is a monster.

 

Also more dungeon dressings and the like... But that's another topic

 

I think that's reasonable. Monster-staples like Goblins, rats, kobolds, beholders, harpies, giants, etc were covered very well by the first Kickstarter. The largest category missing from KS1 that still qualifies as "low-hanging fruit" is probably animals (and DIre subtype, although a Dire Bear can easily be a unique paint job rather than a new mini). Animals tend to show up in every campaign to some extent, especially at low levels, and you always need 3.

 

Since we're defining "PC" as pertains to minis, I'll add that PC sculpts are more likely to be open-helm or at least have a sizeable portion of the face showing. BBEGs are more likely to be closed-helm, or handkerchiefed. Although some may certainly love to grab some of the full-helmed, pointy-armored, scythe-weilding guys and play in an Evil campaign.

 

Bryan,

Please do not forget us olde school, OSR type players who want monsters from Monster Manual/ Fiend Folio type of stuff. But maybe that stuff is all in Paizo's beastiaries?

99% of the Olde-Schoole monsters are contained in the Bestiaries. A handful of monsters are WoTC proprietary, but Reaper has released a few of them as the "Oxidation Beast", "Eye Beast", and "Spider Centaur". Pathfinder still has staples like Darkmantles, Dark Stalkers, Ropers, Blink Dogs, Demons and Devils, etc.

Compare

AD&D 1e: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_1st_edition_monsters

With

Pathfinder: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterIndex.html

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/additionalMonsterIndex.html

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/monsterIndex.html

 

And, of course, nothing says that Reaper is limited to the contents of Paizo's Bestiaries...I just used them as an example of how incredibly diverse the monster index can be compared to the PC index.

Edited by unidentifiable
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Lets please remember also that many of us are playing 4.0. Excluding hellborn and dragonmen (tieflings and dragonborn) from the PC category is just silly, since they're front and centre in PHB1. Also, the Wizards online character creator tool allows for kobolds, gnolls, orcs, bullywugs and many many other options as PC races. If it can talk, wear clothes or armor and carry a weapon, it's a potential PC.

 

I personally would like to see more monstrous humanoids. More ogres, trolls, and the like. A few half-giants as previously mentioned would be great, and definitely a few more bugbears, gnolls, etc (there's one bugbear in the DH:L line that I'd love to see as Bones. Vicious looking with a shield and spear). Also, lets ask a fundamental DM question: Can I staff a group of town guards with Bones? Not unless I want to use a Barnabus as the captain and half a dozen Garricks as the grunts. That works, but it's not very interesting. A group of a Anhurians or some of the simpler Warlord Crusaders would fit the bill nicely.

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Lets please remember also that many of us are playing 4.0. Excluding hellborn and dragonmen (tieflings and dragonborn) from the PC category is just silly, since they're front and centre in PHB1. Also, the Wizards online character creator tool allows for kobolds, gnolls, orcs, bullywugs and many many other options as PC races. If it can talk, wear clothes or armor and carry a weapon, it's a potential PC.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't call those PC races, but "playable monsters". 2nd Edition AD&D Humanoids handbook allows goblins, orcs, kobolds etc. as player characters, but they're still monsters.

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Really all I want is more of the traditional Monster races filled out in Bones. Like the Bugbears and the Gnolls. A Bullywug or two would be sweet. Duegar would be nice. The Hooked Hulk would be super sweet! (That's right I'm looking for hordes of Umber Hulks.) Also Tiamat/ Thakisis and Bahamut/Paladine. These Dragons have needed an awesome model for like ever and Nethyrmaul and Kaladrax proved to me it can be done.

Actually the entire Warlord line in Bones is so perfect for gaming I say it just should be done. Except the basic Merc troopers. Their sculpts are some of the most awful looking trash Reaper has ever done. With that exception you have the most perfect set up for any GM.

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I think the reason why you are hearing a large chorus of "MORE MONSTERS PLEASE!" is because your patron that is most likely to voice an opinion is the DM type. And as a DM I am just loving the BONES line because I can get more bang for my gaming budget dollar. Getting my players to invest in their own PC figure is easy. Each player can get their own PC for less than 10 dollars in most cases. Now with the BONES line, if they can find the right mini, they can get it for less than $5. But lets take into consideration monster buying before BONES.

 

Pre-BONES I bought 06052 for $13.99 (5 sword wielding skelies) and 06053 for $15.99 (5 sword and shield skelies) at a total of $29.98 plus tax. That's 10 figures for $30. Now compare BONES stuff. I can buy 3x 77001 at $4.99 each blister (3 skellies) and 3x 77017 at $4.99 each blister (3 skellies). For my same $30 i get 18 figures. Almost twice the buying power! I want to grow my range of monsters figures. BONES is fantastic for that.

 

How does that play out in retail? Tricky, because the ratio of DM to Player is roughly 1:7. What we know is that hero figures outsell the monster figures in metal because there are so many more Players than DMs, and DMs buy hero figures too. So it's easier to justify the cost of production for hero figures as they are likely to sell a higher volume of figures. But the BONES line makes it far more practical for DMs to spend their dollars on monsters, so it's reasonable to assume that monster figure sales numbers are going to increase. But then again, how many giant skeletons do I need as a DM. The one I pledged for in the KS is really the only one I will ever buy. BUT, if I need another one someday, the cost is not prohibitive. I can tell you now that I would never spend $34 on that one figure, but $15 ain't so bad.

 

So I don't think the demand for more monsters had much to do with the ratio of heroes to monsters so much as it's there is such a huge range of hero figures out there to pick from in metal and BONES. And I want to buy all my monsters in BONES, and I don't mind buying a hero in metal at a premium.

 

Edit added...

 

If your Player patrons were as vocal as your DM patrons, I would hazard a guess that you would be getting "WE WANT MORE HEROES!" at a ratio of 7:1.

Edited by DixonGrfx
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I second animals. Wolves, bears, big cats are all great low level monsters as well as druid/shapeshifter alternate forms. Mounted characters would also be nice as well as stand alone horses. I would personally love to have the same character (two sculpts) mounted and dismounted for pallys, cavaliers, etc.

One more note: I don't know what your relationship with Paizo is, or the turnaround time from designed to sculpt to mold, but I would love more Bones Pathfinder figures from their Adventure Paths. Nothing has been more satisfying than dropping painted Red Mantis Assassins that look like the artwork on the board.

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Upon further reflection, as a GM, the question that interests me is not whether the model is a PC or NPC, but whether a sculpt is so distinctive that having three on the table at a time would be distracting.

 

As an example, multiples of the disco zombie, while not a PC and without lots of details, would be too obvious unless I had at least dozens of zombies out. OTOH, Deathsleet could quite reasonably be part of a flight of dragons with different paint schemes and wouldn't bother me much (see also Flit and the Giant Worm).

This. I'm less interested in distinguishing between "monsters" and PCs, and more between "cannon fodder" and "unique characters." I think people have been asking for monsters as a shorthand for "not-distinctive mook-types," but Bryan's question is generating answers about what he's actually asking: what are monsters and what aren't.

 

The important distinction to me is whether or not I can use a mini more than once. If it's a very dynamic humanoid, it'll probably end up being a specific NPC (or even a PC). Basically, if it's a figure that my players will remember, it's a "character" mini, and if it's not, then it's a "monster" mini. All the Orcpocalypse minis were safely anonymous. They could be any orcs. Same with the Dungeon Attack goblins and most of the PF goblins. The Warchanter, while still being a "monster," is unique enough that it merits being ranked, at least to my mind, as a "character" mini. Most of the humanoids were fairly unique-looking, and I have a hard time seeing them as representing any generic character.

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I ended up with 90 character Stat blocks when doing Savage Worlds stats but some of those were counted twice [Dita, Anirion etc] and some possible Character types [barnabas for example] were stated as monsters.

 

Did notice a lot of dual welding with blades and a shortage of blunt instruments [flails, warhammers], crossbows and slings among the character types.

 

 

As such, some monsters aren't good candidates, but a great many are. We think we have definitely covered the easiest low hanging fruit, and now it's time to look around.

 

A crocodile, Angels, Water and Air Elementals were my immediate thoughts as to what was missing.

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