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I was at Reaper this past Saturday to scout out the paint club. It was not overly quiet, but I was told singing was not allowed... of course my three year old then proceeded to serenade Anne Foester with a montage of nursery rhymes as being contradictory is how she rolls. Luckily we didn't get kicked out before I could pick up some paints and visit with Martin Jones for a few minutes. When I go to actually paint, the kids will have to stay home with mom! I'd go this weekend, but it seems I might be hanging out part of Saturday at Patrick Keith's Sculpt Jam workshop thingy. At least the last part leading up to the Pub visit.

 

I hope no one got hit on the head by all those names I was dropping... :blush:

 

 

Not to hijack the thread, but speaking of getting groups together and so forth, finding local players for games has always been problematic for me. My two local shops mainly cater to Warhammer and various card games. I've tried flyers, Craigslist, etc. with little to no results. I've Googled RPG player finder sites and generally find that when there is someone in my area they haven't accessed the site in years so I get no response.. Can anyone recommend a good site for finding players? Any thought on Reaper adding a section to the forums for finding players in your area?

Have you tried, Nearbygamers?

 

Thanks, haven't tried that one yet. Just signed up and found four people nearby. Thanks again!

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Not to hijack the thread, but speaking of getting groups together and so forth, finding local players for games has always been problematic for me. My two local shops mainly cater to Warhammer and various card games. I've tried flyers, Craigslist, etc. with little to no results. I've Googled RPG player finder sites and generally find that when there is someone in my area they haven't accessed the site in years so I get no response.. Can anyone recommend a good site for finding players? Any thought on Reaper adding a section to the forums for finding players in your area?

 

Have you tried meetup?

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Not to hijack the thread, but speaking of getting groups together and so forth, finding local players for games has always been problematic for me. My two local shops mainly cater to Warhammer and various card games. I've tried flyers, Craigslist, etc. with little to no results. I've Googled RPG player finder sites and generally find that when there is someone in my area they haven't accessed the site in years so I get no response.. Can anyone recommend a good site for finding players? Any thought on Reaper adding a section to the forums for finding players in your area?

 

Have you tried meetup?

 

 

Yeah, there's a group that meets at one of the FLGS that has a group on there, but it's mainly CCGs and DnD NEXT. I'm getting desperate to game so I'm probably going to attend the next one and give DnD NEXT another shot.

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Not to hijack the thread, but speaking of getting groups together and so forth, finding local players for games has always been problematic for me. My two local shops mainly cater to Warhammer and various card games. I've tried flyers, Craigslist, etc. with little to no results. I've Googled RPG player finder sites and generally find that when there is someone in my area they haven't accessed the site in years so I get no response.. Can anyone recommend a good site for finding players? Any thought on Reaper adding a section to the forums for finding players in your area?

 

Have you tried meetup?

 

 

Yeah, there's a group that meets at one of the FLGS that has a group on there, but it's mainly CCGs and DnD NEXT. I'm getting desperate to game so I'm probably going to attend the next one and give DnD NEXT another shot.

 

 

 

 

You could also start your own meetup group and offer the game you want to play... ie once a month etc at your place. If you go that route though you would probably have to be willing to DM.

Meetup fees aren't that expensive.

Edited by kay13
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Good to read the posts of the social paint groups. Keep posting. Myself, I'm help organize the game room at non-gaming conventions (sf, fantasy, anime), so the more info, the better! Wren mentioned conventions. Unfortunately, the conventions I've attended give no budget to the game room, so we use our own games, or contact companies for support. Unlike paint and takes, lending a game only risks normal wear and tear, or damage or loss to the game, so costs are minimal. That's not the case for paint and takes, where paint is used, miniatures are given away, and so on. So it's much easier to just run game events.

 

EDIT: If anyone wants to start a miniature painting Meetup group in the Silicon Valley area, drop me a PM!

 

Back to OP. I found this post, on a KS thread, by Winder on BoardGameGeek, about the risk of a hobby company switching from traditional hobby to mass market retail. He sees a possible parallel with companies using KS versus traditional hobby, although, for myself, I *prefer* KS over game stores. I get more stuff, I get free shipping, I get less confused with the fewer choices! And, of course, if a company has better results with KS than traditional retail, sure, use it.

 

"Kinda reminds me of the same quandary that we used to have in the wholesale industry; to sell to "big merch" or not (ie K-Mart, Walmart, Target, etc.) Basically, unless you were pretty much unscrupulous you'd sell only some lines or certain products to "big merch" (or "mass" normally called in the trade), and reserve the rest of the lines/products for ma & pas and small chains.

One product in particular comes to my mind, (probably because it's one of my hobbies) but the "new" Erector Sets (really Meccano) that were produced in France in the mid 90's were a fairly steady seller in hobby shops, but then they wanted more sales and sold them also to the large retailers. Totally killed the small business sales of them, and a few years down the road pretty much wrote the end of them anywhere, as once they didn't move enough product for "mass" they dropped them down to almost nothing, and the hobby stores wouldn't pick them up again. So sales plummeted. And dear old Erector-Meccano wondered why they had almost NO US sales, after early 2000's after such a great start in US sales during the late 90's. And now I see it in zero retail stores, only some online (and junk basically).

Just for my money during 13 years of wholesaling the small business/chains money was always pretty steady overall, "mass" was always just a shot in the dark with discounted commissions and a very lot of work for a short "duty-cycle" of payoff.

In our hobby here I've had some wonderment when I start to see "niche" games (ie "Nexus Ops, Catan, Game of Thrones, etc.) in "mass" merch stores. In my experience that's most of the time been a great way to kill a smaller business, sooner or later (and most have a very short life after hitting the "big-time"). Tis exactly probably why I got my copy of Nexus Ops for $9, along with a couple of the A&A series dirt cheap, as well as probably why Heroscape died an early death (at least IMHO as I think it was a great little game if it'd grown through hobby stores, instead of merchandised though the walmart types). Course Hasbro doesn't have the "small business" problems but the "mass" stores still expect large turnover. If not, it's gone, and most smaller stores are very reluctant to ever touch things that have been "cheapened" by "mass".

Thing is that when you've a fairly steady customer base and you burn them by creating "unfair" competition, or at least a retail environment that they can't even compete with, it's pretty iffy if they'll stay customers. Game hobby could be totally different but I think some of the same principles hold true. B&M stores are having enough issues completing with web stores, much less the manufacturer selling directly to the consumer.

 

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1030340/its-on-kickstarter/page/2

Edited by ced1106
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Hypothesis in consideration of previous post: every product (unless it is some sort of consumable like food or fuel) has a market saturation level.

 

At some point, a product can reach a market position where every person that wants to buy one has bought one or more. At that point sales all but cease (or are totally fulfilled by whatever secondary market exists). If that ever happens the firm that produced the product had better have some other products to produce if it wishes to survive.

 

The anecdotal examples from the 125th post (about a niche hobby product being provided to massive retailers) represents reaching market saturation suddenly and quickly. If a product is never sold via massive retailers the market saturation point might never be reached (or it might require a very lengthy period of steady sales to reach it) because a new crop of potential buyers is born (or graduates to some entry age level) every year.

 

The last sentence is the EE's business plan in a nutshell.

 

Edited to fix a link.

Edited by TGP
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Hypothesis in consideration of previous post: every product (unless it is some sort of consumable like food or fuel) has a market saturation level.

 

At some point, a product can reach a market position where every person that wants to buy one has bought one or more. At that point sales all but cease (or are totally fulfilled by whatever secondary market exists). If that ever happens the firm that produced the product had better have some other products to produce if it wishes to survive.

 

The anecdotal examples from the 125th post (about a niche hobby product being provided to massive retailers) represents reaching market saturation suddenly and quickly. If a product is never sold via massive retailers the market saturation point might never be reached (or it might require a very lengthy period of steady sales to reach it) because a new crop of potential buyers is born (or graduates to some entry age level) every year.

 

The last sentence is the EE's business plan in a nutshell.

I can't imagine a world where everyone has 20 miniatures.

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Your friendly local game shop is not a video store. It's a hub for like minded individuals to gather around. It's a source of news, gossip, drama, a place for the tribes to gather. Sure, I can get most of what they offer through Amazon, but I ain't the kind of nerd what lives in Mom's basement. I wanna go out and BOTHER people, durnit. And having this opinion, I make a point of supporting FLGS, since I have seen far too many of them sink and vanish without a trace.

 

We had this really great store in Seattle called Uncle's Games. You could come in at any time, pull the demo copy of any game off the shelf and play with people. I was very sad to see them close.

 

We had this really great store in Seattle called Uncle's Games. You could come in at any time, pull the demo copy of any game off the shelf and play with people. I was very sad to see them close.

i just moved to west Seattle and i haven't been able to find an FLGS that carries anything but magic and catan. seriously. i went to one of the bigger new shops and they had a handful of minis from the big manufacturers and a sickly collection of paints (no black? WTH?). i asked the cashier if they carried green stuff, and he didnt even know what it was. i tried, i genuinely tried, to give the "FLGS' my business and they looked at me crazy because i wasnt buying cards from them.

before Seattle i lived in Denver i had a brief run of luck with game stores that had some minis. until they closed down, suddenly.

my fiends, the FLGS is dead. not kicking, straight dead. you know what? i barely noticed its passing. even when i could find a " good " game store that carried minis that meant: a small stand of reaper, loads of GW garbage i dont care for, and a moderate selection of PP. in short: either stuff i already own or stuff i have no interest in. long gone are the game stores of my childhood with a eclectic selection of RPG minis and a box of old metal to dig through in the back. why would i drive 30 mins and hunt for parking to scrounge through that? instead, i could place an order directly to the MFG, and truly support a company i like rather than letting the distributors gouge them and raise the market price of minis for everyone.

You guys should check out Card Kingdom. They're by far the best FLGS I've ever been in. They have events every night of the week, a massive selection (their Reaper stock isn't as robust as I'd like, but I don't know if that's because they don't order enough or just can't keep it in stock), and even have an attached restaurant. They have a wall of games behind the counter that they'll let you borrow and play (they have lots of tables for playing both in the store area and in the restaurant) and even a big rack of Reaper paints. They're big on Magic, sure, but that's what pays the bills, and they certainly don't slight other products at all. There's a great little community that hangs out there and would be happy to play anything with you. I think they even have painting classes every once in a while. (They're also well-lit, spacious, and have female staff, so there's a nice bit of stereotype-breaking going on too.)

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The thing is, distributors lie*. They have always lied. I firmly believe that they will always lie until they're out of business. Specifically, it is SOP for distributors to say that they can't get stock from manufacturers because the manufacturer is out of stock. They say this when they're on a credit hold, because they haven't paid the mfr for the stock already delivered. They say this when they under order and run out. They say this when they don't know who the mfr is. And they say this when they don't like the manufacturer.

 

QFT.

 

It's not just distributors - stores will do it to - like when they haven't paid their distributor.

 

I see it in my own industry. It comes down to "Let's blame the other guy" and it's a mentality that's killing this country. Customers who need service from us (a manufacturer) will lie that their distributor won't give them service, when the real reason is they own their distributor money. Or distributors will lie to their customers and say that they can't get a part because we're out of stock on them - and the real reason is the distributor is on credit hold with us or the parts guy at the distributor doesn't want to do the research on what part they actually need.

 

 

Basically, anytime you have a middle man, you have the opportunity for people to lie.

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Your friendly local game shop is not a video store. It's a hub for like minded individuals to gather around. It's a source of news, gossip, drama, a place for the tribes to gather. Sure, I can get most of what they offer through Amazon, but I ain't the kind of nerd what lives in Mom's basement. I wanna go out and BOTHER people, durnit. And having this opinion, I make a point of supporting FLGS, since I have seen far too many of them sink and vanish without a trace.

 

We had this really great store in Seattle called Uncle's Games. You could come in at any time, pull the demo copy of any game off the shelf and play with people. I was very sad to see them close.

 

We had this really great store in Seattle called Uncle's Games. You could come in at any time, pull the demo copy of any game off the shelf and play with people. I was very sad to see them close.

i just moved to west Seattle and i haven't been able to find an FLGS that carries anything but magic and catan. seriously. i went to one of the bigger new shops and they had a handful of minis from the big manufacturers and a sickly collection of paints (no black? WTH?). i asked the cashier if they carried green stuff, and he didnt even know what it was. i tried, i genuinely tried, to give the "FLGS' my business and they looked at me crazy because i wasnt buying cards from them.

before Seattle i lived in Denver i had a brief run of luck with game stores that had some minis. until they closed down, suddenly.

my fiends, the FLGS is dead. not kicking, straight dead. you know what? i barely noticed its passing. even when i could find a " good " game store that carried minis that meant: a small stand of reaper, loads of GW garbage i dont care for, and a moderate selection of PP. in short: either stuff i already own or stuff i have no interest in. long gone are the game stores of my childhood with a eclectic selection of RPG minis and a box of old metal to dig through in the back. why would i drive 30 mins and hunt for parking to scrounge through that? instead, i could place an order directly to the MFG, and truly support a company i like rather than letting the distributors gouge them and raise the market price of minis for everyone.

You guys should check out Card Kingdom. They're by far the best FLGS I've ever been in. They have events every night of the week, a massive selection (their Reaper stock isn't as robust as I'd like, but I don't know if that's because they don't order enough or just can't keep it in stock), and even have an attached restaurant. They have a wall of games behind the counter that they'll let you borrow and play (they have lots of tables for playing both in the store area and in the restaurant) and even a big rack of Reaper paints. They're big on Magic, sure, but that's what pays the bills, and they certainly don't slight other products at all. There's a great little community that hangs out there and would be happy to play anything with you. I think they even have painting classes every once in a while. (They're also well-lit, spacious, and have female staff, so there's a nice bit of stereotype-breaking going on too.)

 

In roughly the same North Seattle area there are also Gary's Games and Green Lake Games. All three have their stengths.

 

Gary's has Bones, Citadel paints and various hobby supplies. IMHO they have the best RPG book section. They do have goofy hours - no after work games when they close at 5:00 on Monday and Tuesday. They've been around the longest, so they've gotten the most of my money over the years.

 

Green Lake Games has several racks of Reaper metal as well as Warmahordes and Valejo paints. They have a much larger selection of sample games than Card Kingdom, and arguably a larger selection of board/card games. They have a very friendly staff, with a good mix of male and female. There are organized games every night of the week. They are pretty cozy on space though.

 

Man, it's nice (and oftentimes distracting) having all three of these places on my route home from work. Is it wrong that I regularly don't make it home from work until midnight?

Edited by RouterMike
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ill take a look at some of those shops. i figured card kingdom was just that - i didn't know they had anything minis related. unfortunately none of those places are very close. i live in west seattle which has nothing (that i've found), so it makes the prospect of "i'll just pop in and grab a paint and a mini" much less doable.

Edited by vulture
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I don't know; the store and the website seem pretty unrelated, aside from being owned by the same person/people and sharing a name. The store is fantastic, the website... not so much, unless you're into Magic and nothing but. I would really check out their BaM location if you get the chance; it's really cool.

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