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d10 vs. 2d6


Ludo
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So, CAV and CAV2 are 1d10 based and CAV:SO is supposed to be 2d6 based. I've heard people complain both ways but nobody has given a logical explanation either way. Anybody want to tackle it? Also I did not major or even minor in statistics so please show your work.

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1d10 is an even distribution - you are just as likely to get a 1 as a 10.

 

2d6 is a bell curve distribution. There is a much higher chance of hitting the center value - 6 through 9. Most probable is hitting a 7 or 8 (most combinations). critical hits and misses are much less likely.

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1D10 gives you an equal chance of rolling each number between 1&10.

2D6 You are more likely to roll in the middle, there are six different dice combinations that prdouce a 7, only one which produces 2 or 12.

 

A single dice is better for producing a range of results.

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2d6 is a bell curve distribution. There is a much higher chance of hitting the center value - 6 through 9. Most probable is hitting a 7 or 8 (most combinations). critical hits and misses are much less likely.

 

This is not quite correct, the order from the highest to lowest chance like this:

6x 7

5x 6 & 8 (both same chance)

4x 5 & 9 (both same chance)

3x 4 & 10 (both same chance)

2x 3 & 11 (both same chance)

1x 2 & 12

 

Most probable would be 6-8, not only 7-8.

Edited by Teskal
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d10 has a flat distribution. This means all things being equal your chance to roll any given number on the is the same.

2d6 has a distribution based on a bell curve. This means certain numbers show up more often. On 2d6 that means your chance of rolling a 7 is the highest since of the 36 possible outcomes you can come up with 7, 6 distinct ways.

The problem with the d10 RAGE system is that the numbers are all over the board so certain units are almost always successful while others are rarely successful. Furthermore the d10 is problematic because it is flipping a coin with 5 flavors of heads or tails with the advantage on even numbered target numbers. You need a 8 or better? You have two chances if it lands on the even side up while only one chance on the odd side facing up.

2d6 is slightly easier to plan around because the difference between getting a 6+ through an 8+ is pretty large but you get results that are more regular. Again RAGE stats are all over the page which retains the problem of how units perform. I used to think 2d6 was the answer but I don't anymore.

Ultimately stats in all RAGE games need to be pushed towards the middle and the die type needs to be a d20 with a roll greater than or less than system, or alternatively retain the d10 and re-stat everything. Also RAGE games need an armor save system.

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d10 has a flat distribution. This means all things being equal your chance to roll any given number on the is the same.

 

2d6 has a distribution based on a bell curve. This means certain numbers show up more often. On 2d6 that means your chance of rolling a 7 is the highest since of the 36 possible outcomes you can come up with 7, 6 distinct ways.

 

The problem with the d10 RAGE system is that the numbers are all over the board so certain units are almost always successful while others are rarely successful. Furthermore the d10 is problematic because it is flipping a coin with 5 flavors of heads or tails with the advantage on even numbered target numbers. You need a 8 or better? You have two chances if it lands on the even side up while only one chance on the odd side facing up.

 

2d6 is slightly easier to plan around because the difference between getting a 6+ through an 8+ is pretty large but you get results that are more regular. Again RAGE stats are all over the page which retains the problem of how units perform. I used to think 2d6 was the answer but I don't anymore.

 

Ultimately stats in all RAGE games need to be pushed towards the middle and the die type needs to be a d20 with a roll greater than or less than system, or alternatively retain the d10 and re-stat everything. Also RAGE games need an armor save system.

Interesting take. My friend and I play Chronopia like crazy. D20, armor saves, and sounds like what you're after. That being said, we find the RAGE mechanic for Warlord pretty refreshing, perhaps in a more beer and pretzels way, but still satisfying. I prefer games with a flat progression allowing for all kinds of near miraculous things.

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If a bell curve was a must have for CAV:SO I wonder why they didn't stick with ten-sided dice and go for 2D10. That's a bell curve. Differently shaped bell, but still a bell curve.

 

All and only D6s makes it seem, stodgy, limited, old-school, semi-British somehow (like something GW would do).

 

@Psyberwolfe: I doubt your coin-flip theory of D10s is mathematically/statistically valid. But, let's say you are correct, and it is valid. This style of dice solves it:

 

crystal-oblivion-dice-set-purple.jpg

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Interesting take. My friend and I play Chronopia like crazy. D20, armor saves, and sounds like what you're after. That being said, we find the RAGE mechanic for Warlord pretty refreshing, perhaps in a more beer and pretzels way, but still satisfying. I prefer games with a flat progression allowing for all kinds of near miraculous things.

 

 

Infinity actually. Infinity really opened my eyes to what was bothering me about the RAGE mechanics. It's all about threat mitigation. RAGE games mitigate threat poorly and risk reward in the game is distinctly meh. RAGE games can be totally beer and pretzels if you like setting up toy soldiers just to remove them. I really think the stats need to be averaged better, saves added, and risk rewarded better. And then the die type will be irrelevant because the stats match the die. Currently RAGE games should be using a d20 because of their stat ranges.

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Not having a save was in an effort to streamline play. CAV had an opposed roll, which isn't such a bad thing in my book, but the simplicity of CAV2 roll to beat my DV makes large games playable in a reasonable amount of time. Time is my driving factor for gaming at this point. That isn't the case for everyone else. That is why no single rule set will ever please everyone...each player has different things he or she values.

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Not having a save was in an effort to streamline play. CAV had an opposed roll, which isn't such a bad thing in my book, but the simplicity of CAV2 roll to beat my DV makes large games playable in a reasonable amount of time. Time is my driving factor for gaming at this point. That isn't the case for everyone else. That is why no single rule set will ever please everyone...each player has different things he or she values.

Well written. Also, no matter what dice you throw, if you play enough wargames, you will see when the powerful model craps out and gets brought down by a weaker grunt, and you're left with your jaw on the table. From my perspective playing Warlord, I wouldn't add armor saves. I think the game plays just fine even if it's not my favorite or the most elegant. It at least feels right.

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Also, no matter what dice you throw, if you play enough wargames, you will see when the powerful model craps out and gets brought down by a weaker grunt, and you're left with your jaw on the table.

 

This has never happened to me ever. Ever. Especially not my Emperor taken down by a nonexistent super-lucky Nomad.

Edited by Sergeant_Crunch
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