A question about DM-ing styles

[Shogun]

Really like "learn as you go" technique and backfires trying to learn the spell. Do you take the spell out of the players manual or just make it up? Does the player say to you "I would like to learn this spell.." I would love to use this because we only level once every 6 levels (saves paper and printing from the character builder (which is amazing))

[buglips*the*goblin]

It's flexible. For reasons of convencience, the spells in the books are the standard ones. We as players know them, but that doesn't make them common in-game. We allow one chosen spell per level, so wizards don't remain weak if they can't research for a while. This can be of any acceptable type, and is assumed to be the character piecing things together from how magic works. That's a freebie. Spells can be created by the player, and this is encouraged: but it's very difficult work, because it needs to be very creative work. Level 3 "Waterball" or "Fire Bolt" won't count. Making something like "Circle of Envy" that charms people in a 10' radius into being insanely jealous of each other, that I'd be keen to see in action. I know you want it, I do not know why. But it's invented for a reason, so let's see. Because that will be interesting.

 

Additional spells learned or created may take multiple paths that cleave roughly to the "learning as you go". Creative application of in-game resources may speed this up. So if a player is on their way to lightning bolt, and makes an effort to observe and note lightning as part of this study, then acquisition may take shorter. A player who just wants to roll % to see if they get it will labour under much more difficult circumstances (as a lazy student).

 

Incidentally, that last is purposely done to tick people off and be frustrating. Helps make it so anybody playing a wizard is into being a wizard, and not just interested in rolling dice and being powerful. This is true of all classes, and how I reward good playing. The better you play, the more stuff you get to play with. The worse you play, the more limited opportunities become.

 

I'm only required to be fair, not generous. If you can't bring me your best barbarian, a barbarian may not be the best class for your talents. Find another or find the door. I put up with 20 years of chumps, I'm not going back. The fairest way for me to treat quality players is to fill the other slots with quality players. Bringing your best only to have it confounded by Jimmy Slackjaw the antipaladin ranger who stabs orphans only punishes the good.

[h347h]

I recently had a negative experience with a D&D group I had been playing with for several years. As one campaign wound down, one of the players decided to start a new campaign for the rest of us. After a couple of sessions, it is becoming obvious that this DM’s idea of a good time is to prove repeatedly that they are smarter than the rest of us and more powerful than the PCs (duh.) A string of dead characters, really dead animal companions/familiars and broken magic items is making this campaign a real drag for me.

 

I reflect back on some of the best (ie. most fun for me) campaigns in which I have been involved. They tend to be: 1) very little or no PC death, 2) not toooo tremendously mentally intensive, and 3) the feeling that the DM was setting up a good story for me to experience and was not actively working against me through game mechanics.

 

My question is: What type of DM are you/do you enjoy and, if you DM, what motivates you to run a game ?

For me being a DM is being an arbiter of the rules and MOST IMPORTANTLY a story teller. He is not there to try and kill you hes there to present challenges to your character and try and make the game world feel alive and that you actually live in it. That is the great draw of D&D vs video games that even MMOs cant really accomplish is that it feels like my character can actually impact the world instead of feel like a plastic doll running through sight seeing.

 

To be a great DM you have to be able to compromise because the game is all about the player characters not about the DM, the DM is not a faction and the DM should be able to set aside differences with the real people playing the characters and the characters.

 

I have played in 2 groups with DMs like this, I called them on their stuff pretty quick and one threw a temper tantrum and the other actually realized that he was being a horses butt.

 

There is however a balance that a DM should try with challenges and should not just let player characters steam roll the whole time because some times near death or death can keep the game interesting.

Edited October 5, 2013 by h347h

[Dadcubed]

I love the idea of players creating their own spells that would be really fun.

 

Getting so much good stuff from this thread! :)

[Loim]

I agree, the more I read this post the more ideas I get. This is good stuff, the only way it could be better is if we were sitting around a fire having this conversation with some good beer.

[Slendertroll]

I agree, the more I read this post the more ideas I get. This is good stuff, the only way it could be better is if we were sitting around a fire having this conversation with some good beer.

I am definitely enjoying the recent trend of RPG-related posts here. So many fantastic ideas to steal from much more talented DMs than myself.

[redambrosia]

I love the idea of players creating their own spells that would be really fun.

 

Getting so much good stuff from this thread! :)

My hubby is addicted to creating spells and has gotten me to do it too. It's not as easy for me, since I'm not as familiar with the mechanics and all. Basically I'll propose an idea and he'll help me work it out.

 

When we role-play creating the spells in game there's some dice rolling, and some research, and we have to spend up in game time to get it right. But the same goes for learning in a spell. You have to practice casting it before you can have learnt it. When creating a spell there's also the potential for things to go horribly awry. Which is why a reinforced magic lab is probably a good idea for any spell-crafter. A spell-crafting mage is one with a home base.

[TGP]

I thought character-created spells were the explanation for all the Bigby's Magick Fist/Hand/Thumb spells and there was a spell or two involving Eyes or Eyeballs? I forget what the Eye Spell did.

 

One time I got handed a pre-made character from a module and the wizard was 'Glleepwarp the Eye-Biter' and I think those Eye spells were originally his custom spell(s). (And, I am sure I spelled the name wrong; I don't remember what module it was, not even sure the character was supposed to be human.)

 

I never played or ran a group that had enough longevity or played fast enough to get spell-casters up to the levels where they could invent spells by the book.

 

I did have a lot of players try to re-invent Level 3 [?] Fireball. I insisted on running it as the battlefield weapon the book stated it was, even when the player was dumb enough to set it off below ground. In retrospect, I really should have given some characters' intelligence scores the chance to override their player's innate intelligence.

 

The player(s) kept wanting to cast some puny, weak, fail safe, Fire-based spell that would never flashback over their position. Sadly, they kept telling me: "I cast Fireball !"

 

There was one wizard character where I actually confiscated his spell book and ripped out the page that contained Fireball. (That was the mage who managed to kill off the party's NPC Cleric with a single casting of Fireball ... never mind that this magus got all those zombies, he dealt more damage to his own party than the zombies ever could have.)

Edited October 6, 2013 by TGP

[buglips*the*goblin]

For spell mechanics, I do sort of have a cheat. My weakness as a DM is the mechanics. Mostly because they don't interest me, they're only there insofar as I need them to resolve things and move on. But my longtime normal DM (who occassionally guest-DMs my new compaign) is very good at mechanics. So I focus on intent, use, and potential - and then hand the player off to him to work out a fair mechanic.

 

When I'm doing something new and cool, I explain the intent behind it. And I say, I haven't worked all of this out in every possible situation, but here's why I want to introduce this cool thing that lets players do more cool things. So long as you obey the intent and don't find ways to abuse it, it stays.

 

An example of this is the addition of magical staves and sundry for spellcasters, which they can load up with spells. (rather than wander around finding magical sticks in hoards) The intent here is to let people do Gandal stuff. There's one protection spell in the 2nd PHB, I forget which one, that long ago I wanted to cast as a cleric. Some ward or something. And it said something like I'd have to spend 20 minutes carefully making a circle out of iron bits. While maybe asking the balrog to please wait outside until his name is called.

 

That's stupid.

 

Cracking your staff down on a rock bridge and screaming "You shall not pass!" is awesome.

 

So the intent here is to allow greater flexibility of spell use outside the normal daily memorized range. Like contingency spells, if you need to escape or hold off a balrog. That's the intent. But what I don't want to see is somebody thinking they're clever and loading it up with 20 meteor swarms or call lightning. That's abuse, and at that point then I have to go and create a buttload of restrictions. I'd prefer not to, because it's more interesting if I don't. So I explain the intent very clearly, and that way if somebody who ought to know better gets "clever" later, then they can't plead ignorance.

[ShadowRaven]

magic circle against evil. The circle bit was for summoning demons and devils, so they couldn't get out and rip you a new one. It makes some sense as it was written, because it was made to be a part of a ritual.

[Doug Sundseth]

I really like the way Fantasy Hero handles magic. If you want to create a spell that requires the sacrifice of an intelligent creature, a magic circle made of the crystallized blood of a demon, six casters, and a week's uninterrupted chanting, you can not only do it, but it can actually make sense. And it will be very powerful. (Just the thing for evil cultists ... or creative players.)

 

And if you want a spell that will rip the heart out of an enemy with a word, you can do that, too. But it will be hideously difficult to create.

 

The game has more inbuilt flexibility than any other game I've played. (Any game can do this sort of thing ... see above ... but it's designed into FH.)

 

The cost for that is that the players really need to understand a math-intensive and complex system and the GM needs to understand it better than the players, because it's especially easy to abuse. But with the right players, it's excellent. (Any game where there can be a mechanical advantage for creating a permanent spell to make an entire county shrouded in twilight, and a reasonable cost for doing so, is a game that I like.

[smokingwreckage]

Doug Sundeth, pretty sure Burning Wheel + Magic Burner supplement will do that, too.

[Dadcubed]

I really like the way Fantasy Hero handles magic. If you want to create a spell that requires the sacrifice of an intelligent creature, a magic circle made of the crystallized blood of a demon, six casters, and a week's uninterrupted chanting, you can not only do it, but it can actually make sense. And it will be very powerful. (Just the thing for evil cultists ... or creative players.)

 

And if you want a spell that will rip the heart out of an enemy with a word, you can do that, too. But it will be hideously difficult to create.

 

The game has more inbuilt flexibility than any other game I've played. (Any game can do this sort of thing ... see above ... but it's designed into FH.)

 

The cost for that is that the players really need to understand a math-intensive and complex system and the GM needs to understand it better than the players, because it's especially easy to abuse. But with the right players, it's excellent. (Any game where there can be a mechanical advantage for creating a permanent spell to make an entire county shrouded in twilight, and a reasonable cost for doing so, is a game that I like.

Someone always has to start down the route of evil magic and sacrificing intelligent creatures.

 

"Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering."

[Doug Sundseth]

 

I really like the way Fantasy Hero handles magic. If you want to create a spell that requires the sacrifice of an intelligent creature, a magic circle made of the crystallized blood of a demon, six casters, and a week's uninterrupted chanting, you can not only do it, but it can actually make sense. And it will be very powerful. (Just the thing for evil cultists ... or creative players.)

 

And if you want a spell that will rip the heart out of an enemy with a word, you can do that, too. But it will be hideously difficult to create.

 

The game has more inbuilt flexibility than any other game I've played. (Any game can do this sort of thing ... see above ... but it's designed into FH.)

 

The cost for that is that the players really need to understand a math-intensive and complex system and the GM needs to understand it better than the players, because it's especially easy to abuse. But with the right players, it's excellent. (Any game where there can be a mechanical advantage for creating a permanent spell to make an entire county shrouded in twilight, and a reasonable cost for doing so, is a game that I like.

Someone always has to start down the route of evil magic and sacrificing intelligent creatures.

 

"Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering."

 

 

... and suffering leads to Profit!

 

 

Since I don't run games for evil PCs, those kind of spells are pretty much reserved to horrible, nasty villains, of course. Rich villains, though.

[pocketcthulhu]

My general fall back setting is ravenloft, even after switching to pathfinders my current player's have learned if you go following that harlet down that dark side street alone you will loose ever coin/ fancy item your wearing, that is If your lucky and it's not a nasty beastie in disguise. more than a couple of times one player gets distracted and goes to check something only to come back very shortly screaming bloody murder.

 

I have to agree with what bug's said a couple pages back forgotten realms is a four letter word in my book.

Edited October 8, 2013 by pocketcthulhu