Bones Kickstarter #2 Discussion

[Berik]

 

 

No, just no. It is not a subsidy; this type of thinking drives me batty. I'm not singling you out on this Berik, you just happened to post it most recently, and here. You, as a backer, are not paying for my shipping, any more than I paid for anyone else's ROW shipping last time. The money, at the end of the day, is Reaper's. They decide what they do with the funds. They've chosen to take a loss, and eat the US shipping costs out of their profits. This idea that anyone outside the doors of the Reaper building somehow has any impact on what Reaper does with the dollars from this campaign is ludicrous. It is based on a logical fallacy, and it needs to stop.

 

~v

 

I'm sorry, but I still disagree. Lets say that Reaper have only two customers, me in New Zealand and somebody else in America. They sell us the exact same product for $100, it costs $10 to ship to the American and it costs $20 to ship to me. So they're receiving a total of $200 for the two copies of the product and spend $30 on shipping. Now they're not charging for shipping to America, so the American pays nothing and I pay $20. Reaper have therefore priced the product in such a way that they're making a higher profit margin off me than off the American. I emphasise that's not wrong, I'm okay with Reaper doing that and understand reasons for it.

 

The thing is that Reaper knew the possible costs of shipping when they picked a price point of $100. They aren't taking a loss out of paying the shipping from their profit, they've priced the product knowing in advance that they'd be offering free shipping to a particular area. I'd certainly expect them to have priced the core set at a level where they'd made enough profit margin on the core set that they were comfortable with absorbing the US shipping cost. I would expect their pricing to be different if they expected to have 20% international, 50% international or 90% international customers, because any of those levels change their cost structure if they're offering free shipping to one region and at cost to another.

 

Reaper had to price the product at a level where they'd make an acceptable profit margin. And they had to pick that level making some kind of an estimate of what the balance between international and US backers was and hence likely shipping costs. Last time they chose to offer below cost shipping to everyone, substantially more so to the international buyers. This time they're still offering below cost to US backers and at cost to international buyers. The first project US subsidised international (they had the higher profit margin), this time International subsidises US (international has the higher profit margin).

 

Look, I think this comes down to just how people define subsidies and some people feeling a subsidy is an inherently bad thing. I'm actually currently a pricing analyst by profession (in the energy industry in fact) and we intentionally take a lower margin on some customers and in some areas than we take in others (for a variety of different reasons). But we're only able to maintain those margins because one group of customers is subsidising another. If we only had customers in the lower margin areas we'd have to make different choices on pricing, we'd have to price differently if we didn't have the higher margin areas enabling us to accept lower margin elsewhere.

[Mistwalker]

 

No, just no. It is not a subsidy; this type of thinking drives me batty. I'm not singling you out on this Berik, you just happened to post it most recently, and here. You, as a backer, are not paying for my shipping, any more than I paid for anyone else's ROW shipping last time. The money, at the end of the day, is Reaper's. They decide what they do with the funds. They've chosen to take a loss, and eat the US shipping costs out of their profits. This idea that anyone outside the doors of the Reaper building somehow has any impact on what Reaper does with the dollars from this campaign is ludicrous. It is based on a logical fallacy, and it needs to stop.

This is where perception comes into play again.

 

I agree that Reaper is making business decisions based on what is best for them - I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

But your comment could be interpreted as Reaper liking US clients more than RoW, if they are willing to eat the cost of shipping for the US but not for the RoW or to reduce RoW shipping costs by the amount that they are eating for the US shipping costs. I suspect that the extra paperwork involved in RoW shipments eats up something similar to the US shipping costs (employee time to process things), but I do not know. As this is business data, I suspect that we will never know.

 

I must say that I preferred your last series of responses on shipping cost - they made a lot of sense and didn't have the edge that the post above seems to have.

 

Several of my friends have decided not to back this kickstarter themselves, but to get in on mine (same amount of money pledged) to reduce overall shipping costs, customs fees and customs handling fees. I suspect that that will save us a fair bit of the shipping costs by splitting a higher cost between all of us.

 

Also, could I ask ReaperBryan to let us know if the shipping costs will have to be paid at the end of the Kickstarter or just before shipping happens? Or if the decision hasn't been made yet, letting us know that would help to.

[ladystorm]

<MOD>

you will listen to the Moderator who says knock it off and agree to disagree or you will lose this thread and face escalating actions...

</MOD>

[kimbers]

Anyone who got overseas shipping for $25 in the last Bones Kickstarter likely got a great deal (especially me as it probably cost Reaper $80-$100 to ship my package). I'd feel like a hypocrite complaining about having to pay actual shipping this time.

 

 

Also, could I ask ReaperBryan to let us know if the shipping costs will have to be paid at the end of the Kickstarter or just before shipping happens? Or if the decision hasn't been made yet, letting us know that would help to.

 

Bryan mentioned recently that he expects to find that out soon. The shipping calculator is being worked on but it will take a bit of time. I think they were very surprised at how quickly the KS escalated and expected to have some more time for these things.

[prophetic_joe]

Or maybe it needs to be set up that ROW people agree to pay actual shipping costs in the pledge manager at the close of the kickstarter. That way the shipping doesn't help unlock anything but still get's paid. You can use the shipping calculator simply to know what you will owe and that way you can base your pledge on that.

[Pingo]

So anyway, wishlist?

 

This is by no means thoroughly thought-out, just what occurs to me now.

 

I left off a bunch of things because they are already in the Kickstarter. Squee!

 

1. More females. Please. I llike dudely archetypes as much as the next person-who's-been-playing-rpgs-since-1980, but so far this Kickstarter seems lacking in the other gender representation. Some more female adventurers, villains, and monsters would be much appreciated. I don't mind cheesecake -- after all, it sells well -- but please also consider some more serious females ready for adventure.

 

1B. And female monsters. A she-orc to match some of those bull orcs in the last Kickstarter, a scary warrior giantess, a female troll that isn't a domestic joke. Too many monster species you would think were all boys reproducing by spores.

 

1C. Female lycanthropes, possibly including Reaper's Kosumi, the giant warrior werewolf.

 

2. More aquatic creatures: mermaids, selkies, pookas, goroloths, a giant nautilus or one of those pointy-shelled fossil squid

 

3. Bathalians, more monster pirates, humanoid bugs, half giants and giant dwarves

 

4. That dwarfish cannon with a dragon's mouth.

 

5. And yeah, cavalry would be pretty cool

 

PS: I love many of Reaper's dragons, appreciate the rest, and don't understand the snarking.

 

I am assuming Reaper knows more or less what sells and what is wise to produce.

 

I am also aware that my personal tastes may well be far afield from what is in Reaper's business interests to make.

 

So I will not be cranky if it turns out my wishlist does not reflect their needs at this time, although I *will* be very happy if things from my list do show up.

[Chaoswolf]

So, um...in an attempt to save the thread, what's everyone's favorite mini so far?

[Berik]

Apologies if that's addressed to me as well Lady Storm. I'm not upset with Reaper or anyone else, just thought there was value in explaining why I used the word that I did. I'll happily self-moderate and remove the post if you think that would be better.

 

And on a totally different note I just noticed the Intellect Devourer. I'm definitely going to have to pick up a few of those at retail, such a creepy monster.

 

Edit: Oh, and wishlist wise I'd love to see a gold dragon (such as the one in this art http://www.draconika.com/types/images/gold-dragon.jpg ).

 

I'd second Pingo's #1 as well though. It does seem a lot of times that there are only male humanoids, a group of Hobgoblins or something with a mixture or males and females would be good to see.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Berik

[prophetic_joe]

I don't know Pingo, I would like verification on the amount of male minis versus female minis in the last kickstarter because looking over the bones it just seems like there were a lot of ladies. Not that it is a bad thing exactly.

 

Ooh I would like female monsters that would be sweet.

 

Cannons too or the dragon catapult.

[kimbers]

In regards to the shipping calculator status, Kit (our friendly Reaper Webmaster) posts to the reapermini twitter account so I looked there to see how he was and he has posted this:

 

Reaper Miniatures ‏@reapermini 2 Oct
Intl shipping is going to be based on the weight of your options. I am personally working on that tool now. Yesterday caught me off guard.

[Mistwalker]

I too apologize Lady Storm if I added to your ire, it was not my intent.

 

Please don't get my domestic boss involved - she too has a bat (looks around nervously)

[prophetic_joe]

So, um...in an attempt to save the thread, what's everyone's favorite mini so far?

 

That is a tough one. I love the Dragons of course but honestly and it may be wierd but there is just something really awesome about the giant Rat.

[Crimson_king_of_the_tower]

Well as far as in general so far its gotta be the Kraken, now in the core set if I HAD to pick one it would be Drogath, Gorath?? (guy on the throne lol) and yea I like Pingos idea of aquatic monsters I'm a HUGE nerd for water based adventures. My group cringes when they see I'm trying to steer them towards a body of water and now with this Kraken they'll never walk next to a puddle again!

[Nocturne]

I think my favourite so far is the Dragon Turtle. I've been wanting him for a w longhile.

For wishlist it's all those big chunky monsters that aren't in bones yet... All of them!

 

EDIT: Got to say I'm loving the gelatinous cube and the oozes as well. No one mentiones the oozes, they need some love too y'know!

Edited October 5, 2013 by Nocturne

[Mistwalker]

I think my current favorite is the gelatinous cube.