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Bones Kickstarter #2 Discussion


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Heck I'd LOVE to just the Goroloth by itself. I was worried a model like this one would wind up locked in the Core Set Expansion.



I'll have one (or two) available when my sets come in :)



One or two what? Dozen? I saw the pic of your haul. LOL! :blink:



Yeah, this time around there is no room for prospecting, so I won't be having such an awesome haul. I figure Bryan already said this deal won't be like the last one in terms of insaneness and people will "jump on the wagon" to sell sets off, so the price will be marginal, at best. Prob only grab 2 at most.

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Randomized mini packs turned me off right away. I've never once bought or used a DDM.

Same. The only random mini packs I've purchased recently was a few packs of 'We Be Goblins' Pathfinder Goblins at PAX. I didn't mind spending a few dollars on a few random goblin minis because I knew that I'd be using them any way.


*edit* Haha onyxGuenhwyvar had pretty much the exact same story as me! Pathfinder Goblin fans unite. :bday:

Edited by Cassu
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We use the ddm that our DM had for our game ... And that is why I quickly got into buying and painting miniatures after I started playing dnd again. They are pretty crummy and we use the same couple of figures for almost every group of monsters. I am happy to have the huge variety of the ks packs, even unpainted, because at least it isn't all the same.

Many of them were pretty bad... the entire Wardrums led the way for worst painting ever. However, once you have seen one of the Harbinger (premiere set) Lizardfolk miniatures in hand, you will realize there were some real gems buried in the heavily black washed masses of DDM.

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Sheeeeiiiiittt. The FLGS I'm always griping about got wise and stocked the new Bones. I promptly dropped like $200 filling in gaps in my collection. One simply cannot have enough of those little scorpions. 40 20 is not too many, it is just enough. for now.

Edited by Girot
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I bought one booster of the DDM when it first came out to see hat it was like. I think half of them are still in the baggies. I have bought a few others piecemeal from a game store (Ethereal Filcher and some kinda summoned badger). I also like to look for Heroscape (I think that what they are) figures in thrift stores. But paying inflated prices for artificially scarce minis? Count me out.


Edited cause I can't spell.

Edited by Dilvish the Deliverer
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Sheeeeiiiiittt. The FLGS I'm always griping about got wise and stocked the new Bones. I promptly dropped like $200 filling in gaps in my collection. One simply cannot have enough of those little scorpions. 40 is not too many, it is just enough. for now.

You, of course, mean 20.

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Bane172: No, the core expansion is an add-on unto itself and we are not going to break it up into it's components.



Well that settles that. Im kinda disappointed with this fact. Simply because there are a few in there that I would like multiples of. But it makes sense not to break it up and I didnt think it would be.

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Honestly? I looked back on what I bought 'adhoc' last time and realize I was better off just waiting for retail. I ended up with some things I really wanted an some things I'm likely never gonna use, just because they were lumped together. This is definatley gonna be the case again BUT this time I can give my extras to my son so I'm not wasting anything.

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Feel free to disagree.

Thanks, I will. I mean, I would have anyway, but you're so considerate. ^_^


However, the Skirmish game was never the primary reason to purchase the miniatures; it was the secondary purpose. D&D RPG usage was always the primary aspect; even the designers admitted this was true. People were really interested in miniatures that paralleled their favorite game--and they were pre-painted! Even better. These reasons attracted my purchases; and, I was buying them by the case, as well.

Never said otherwise, though I can see how you might infer that I thought that. It wasn't the primary market, but it was probably the difference between profit and break even. I bought them for RPGs, too, so when I had enough, there was little reason to buy more. A better skirmish game would have been a second market for the same figures (see also "Warlord"). And if the game had been decent, it would have provided quite a lot of persistent consumers.


However, the randomization model started affecting a lot of people quicker than it does for Magic. A box of miniatures presents a larger storage problem than a pack of 15 Magic cards. The user base was also smaller. My area had a whopping half dozen DDM collectors versus dozens of Magic players (this was during the height of the DDM product line). Magic players had an easier time trading off duplicates than we did, unless we turned to online trading (which I did).

All of those things are true, but they're just as true of non-randomized figures. DDM sold in numbers that any other miniatures company other than (perhaps) GW would have killed to get. But, like Bones, it was capital intensive to create the molds, so when the profit margin started to fall, Hasbro decided to stop investing in it. It still lasted for eight years and sold an unbelievable number of prepaints. Sure, it was destined to fail, but in the same was as AD&D 2nd was destined to fail -- because every gaming line changes in popularity over time.


We both recognized the secondary market, especially for rares. However, the random model did not help out DM's as much as people think it did. I talked to many at several conventions who wished they could pick up the "sets" WotC once promised to make but never brought to fruition. Sure, they had some random miniatures, but many of them became sick of using the same models time and time again. Unfortunately, the rising prices kept many of them from buying more in lieu of buying a new game book to expand their games. The DDM price point really was it's primary killer, not the Skirmish game. The Skirmish game was even supported by a player-run group after WotC cancelled the game (and then the DDM line), much like Decipher's SWCCG was after Lucas revoked their license.

Many, many people complained about randomized figures, but without the huge numbers that randomized figures allowed WotC to sell, there is no way that the individual figure price could have been kept as low as it was, even at the end of the run. Note that before that line, nobody had been able to make a significant business out of selling prepaints.


Randomized huge miniatures also destroyed the line. Against the Giants was the best of them, mostly because of the two huge dragons, red and gold, that made the concept appear worthwhile. However, each huge set thereafter fell short of the original popularity margins because the uncommon huge miniatures were typically far more undesirable compared to the ever-popular rare dragons. When they added the super rares (or whatever the rarity level was called -- I had quit the line by then), I knew DDM was going to fail. Miniatures should not exist at disproportionate rarity levels, especially in random packs; the market doesn't support the concept, as was proven by their falling sales. Limited edition miniatures should be labelled as such and sold separate from the usual sales line to allow customers to choose whether or not they wish to purchase them, which is what they did with their "repaints" -- you had to play the Skirmish game to try to win them (or, again, turn to the secondary market).

Studies have shown that you get the best return rates if you get a prize about every third time you press the button. Not surprisingly, that was about what DDM ended up being. And the result was huge sales. It was only when WotC finally went to reduced randomization (because of the complaints that you refer to) that the line really started to die. It's unclear whether that move was a reaction to, or a cause of the failure, though. (I'm sure WotC knows, but I don't have the data.)


DDM was a good line, offered by a top company. However, the sales model did not age well, and while the line started out strong, it dropped out of the market much earlier than I thought it should have. I don't have any amazing answers as to how the line could have been saved, and it quite possibly had existed for as long as it was meant to be around. This is where I stop wondering or worrying and decide to enjoy the miniatures I did collect -- I was never anti-DDM. I was simply tired of them filling half the sets with as many repeat miniature stereotypes. How many similar sword-and-board fighters do I need? My personal rate-on-return had hit diminishing returns and I "retired" from purchasing.

Eight years for a prepaint line is a huge success. But your complaints about too many of the same figure would have been addressed by a larger-scale miniatures game that could use multiples (say, dozens) of the same figure in units. Skirmish game players didn't need that many and, as you note, most GMs didn't either. Though I've found it very convenient to able to put out many different, but similar sculpts in RPG scenarios, especially when I need to run humans, or orcs, or goblins.


As opposed to that old hullabaloo, this is why I'm really enjoying Reaper's Bones Kickstarters. They represent the single largest purchases of miniatures I have made since the DDM heyday. Moreover, we can see what we will be purchasing, something I much prefer when buying gaming materials!

It's not for me, but then I've been a miniatures gamer, buying armies, for quite a long time. Each new army means spending a few hundred dollars for new lead (or lead substitute). But I like the variety that Bones kickstarters provide. In many ways, it's the figures that I wouldn't necessarily have bought as onesies that I like the best.



We never bought any of the random ddm packs either, we prefer to know what we buy. A very dumb way to sell minis in my opinion.

Worked for them with cards.


I actually liked the Axis & Allies mini game. But random, so no. I think that might have changed near the end though.


Worked with miniatures, too. They were tremendously popular for years. (The line lasted 8 years before it was finally cancelled, which is enviable in the gaming market.)


I bought one booster of the DDM when it first came out to see hat it was like. I think half of them are still in the baggies. I have bought a few others piecemeal from a game store (Ethereal Filcher and some kinda summoned badger). I also like to look for Heroscape (I think that what they are) figures in thrift stores. But paying inflated prices for atificailly scarce minis? Count me out.

One box tends not to be very useful. The odds of getting something you need soon enough to care are too low. One case, however, usually provided the right figures or reasonable proxies for a large part of many campaigns. In this, it's not too different from, say Dwarven Forge terrain. $100 isn't good for much, but at, say, $300, the value proposition is much better.


Also, I'd submit that DDMs weren't overpriced if you bought the boxes, at least up until they stopped randomizing. Early on, they ran around $1.25/painted figure, which was far better than any other pre-paints had ever been, and frankly was quite a bit cheaper than nearly all unpainted metal. It was only in the secondary market that pricing started to get crazy, but then that wasn't random.

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Extras of some things might be nice. I'm tempted by the thought of Gnocaylpse for example, Or Bugbegeddon. Because damnit it's hard to have too many humanoid monsters. I'm kinda kicking myself for not getting the Big Barrel O'Orcs™ last Kicker.

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