Bones Kickstarter #2 Discussion

[Heisler]

I'm not sure there is such a thing, maybe one of the sculptor's can point out a forum or group that discusses that.

[Wren]

There's a bit of an art in addition to craft and expertise to mould making. I'm not aware of a reference site for guidelines to sculpting something that can be moulded well. Undercuts are the biggest issue as those mean that you either can't remove the piece from the mould at all, or that it'll rip the mould as it gets pulled out. So this is why you'll get thick cloaks or big areas of metal filled in between legs and hanging cloth and that kind of thing, or cloaks that are moulded separately and have to be attached. It is totally possible to sculpt thin, free-hanging cloth, it's reproducing it through the moulds that is the limitation.

 

The mould is in two halves, and the depth of how far a piece can penetrate into a half is a bit of a limitation. This is partly why you'll see miniatures tending to be on a bit of a plane with arms and legs posed out to the sides. Or you have forward/backward facing parts that are cast separately and you have to assemble. The mould also compresses the piece slightly along that plane. Ideally the sculptor compensates for that slightly. The difficulty in doing that and lack of uniformity in that compression is partly why you'll get multiple part pieces that do not assemble precisely. Also if you do a sideways facing face, you not only get a mouldline running through it, but any compression or off-setting on the mould becomes a lot more obvious and problematic.

 

The composition of the actual green itself must also be considered. Two part epoxy is used in large part because it handles the moulding process well. (Though people are getting more experienced and creative with making moulds from figures sculpted in polymer clays.) It generally needs to have a core of a metal armature for the purpose of sculpting. Air bubbles in the material can cause big issues, and I have a vague recollection of superglue causing issues, but I might be misremembering. Greens often survive the process, but not always, so you only have one guaranteed shot at that first mould.

 

Pieces need to be thick enough for the metal to fully penetrate during casting, and for them to be removed from the mould without breaking. (And to survive knocking around in a blister on a shelf for upwards of years.) I don't think a realistic rapier is possible in pewter. What could be done is to load the mould with a pin of a different type of metal, then cast the pewter. At least this is how they make the commemorative pokey tools given out at ReaperCon. Those were labour intensive and a pain to make. Those pins were close to as thick as Lonnia's pewter sword anyway, so I'm not sure it even could be done anyway. (Or that the join at the hand would look nice enough.) Far easier and more cost effective to produce them with a castable weapon, and the consumer that is really troubled by it can cut off the cast weapon and insert a pin to make a rapier without too much difficulty. I've seen historical figure companies sell spear handles make of a different metal to get something thin enough. (The figures are cast with open hand, then the hobbyist needs to glue on the spears and so on.)

 

Those are just a few things that I'm vaguely aware of from hanging out with sculptors and mould makers. And all of that pertains to rubber moulds for casting metal figures. Bones moulds and what works or doesn't work with them is slightly different. One of the big values of Reaper's ArtistCon is that the sculptors hang out and trade tips, and the mould makers let them know things that are causing trouble so they can try to avoid those on future pieces.

[Dai-Mongar]

Speaking of Lonnia, in the sketch art she had a really cool rapier but the sword in the mini is too big for the figure. Is this just the sad physics of molds? I've noticed a lot of concept art has really cool features that don't make it to production.

 

Hang on, I saw something once... The Craft article...

Here we go!

http://www.reapermini.com/TheCraft/25

Froggy's own recipe for more realistic rapiers/foils/what have you.

[LittleBluberry]

So does anyone know whether we have to wait until tomorrow morning for an update? I don't mind if they don't do updates on the weekend, I just don't want to hover over my computer if there isn't going to be anything to see.

[dsmiles]

It's likely we'll have to wait for an update.

[Last Knight]

We will almost certainly have to wait for an update. The Reaper Crew are keeping to their regular sleep cycles this time around, at least until the Final Countdown begins.

[LittleBluberry]

Yeah, I sort of figured. It's not that late *here*, but I'm on Pacific time.

[Slendertroll]

I mean, it's only 8:30 here in RST (Reaper Standard Time) but by the time we're another $7K in, it'll definitely be too late for any of the Reapresentatives to still be up.

[thatguywiththeface]

I'm sorry to hear that, Girot :(

[LittleBluberry]

Oh bother, I missed the 7k at the end.

 

.... Guess I'm better off getting up early tomorrow.

[Last Knight]

You're not the only one, Bluberry. Sleep in and get up after 1000 EST, then you'll have an update waiting for you!

[OneBoot]

I agree that there seem to be generally more larger sculpts in this second one, as well as more paid add-ons (though I'm too lazy right now to go actually count them). There's a whole lot of room for this one to keep growing, though, so I think there's still plenty of time for the value on it to keep getting better. :)

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

[Shakandara]

Yeah but against that they did get Thomas the Tank Injector. And a whole bunch of molds for future use.

 

This is not quite accurate. All the stuff from KS1 was made in China, and if you check out the base of each figure, you'll find the words "Made in China" there. That means that even *if* the factory in China were to send Reaper the molds (which I'm not really sure they'd do anyway; most contract casting companies either store or destroy molds once a job is done, rather than send them to the customer), they'd be less than useful.

 

What they do have is access to having more figures run from those molds (in China), and maybe the files that were used to cut the molds.

 

~v

[bloodydrake]

so while waiting for the next update.. question: Am I the only one that gets a major Ray HarryHausen vibe from the Silver Dragon in the Core addon?

I dont know if its the sculpt or the pose..but it really looks like a dynamation model..I mean that in the best possible way btw.

[Slendertroll]

I would bet a significant amount of money that Reaper's contract guaranteed that they will get the molds when the Chinese manufacturer's job is done, given that cutting the molds is the most expensive part of the process for Bones, and that getting the molds made and beginning the move to US-based production were Reaper's stated primary objectives for KS1. It would have been very foolish to enter into any contract that would make achieving either of those goals more difficult.

 

Furthermore, it would not be an unbearable hardship to have the molds retooled to read "United States" instead of "China." If they were clever, the text on the bottoms of the bases is actually on removable plates, rather than an integral feature of the mold itself, thus making it even easier to transfer from one country to the other, though I have no idea if that is the case in this instance or not. Regardless, having the molds would be rather more than "less than useful."