Bones Kickstarter #2 Discussion

[Thrym]

If Reaper ends up putting in the Pumpkin Golem, I will be exceedingly happy. He'd also fit right in with the Halloween theme! :D

 

And I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I can haz new Mr. Bones plz?

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

 

+1 to Pumpkin Golem and Mr. Bones.

 

Plus, I'd like to see a version of the Grave Horror but Adrift's version with a pumpkin head and flaming pumpkin in its hand.

[karpouzian]

How about a copy of the Warlord rules (PDF) as a stretch goal?

[ub3r_n3rd]

 

I probably have a budget of about 200$ (don't tell my wife!) but am at only 110$ at the moment (probably 22$ more for the giants and the first dragon). Because the rest of the budget will go to shipping even if I am pretty sure I will dodge customs with that amount here in Argentina.

 

So, less money for hitting your stretch goals

My wife's opinion on what I am spending concerns me as well. When she brings up the cost, I am going to just point to one of the many redundant pairs of shoes sitting in her closet.

 

 

Haha, I brought that up in the previous thread talking about Bones II as well!

 

I think my plan is to make sure my wife gets something nice and the equivalent value of how much I want to spend on my bones and then when she balks, I will say, "but you just got that $XXX purse/shoes..."

[Dibbler]

A shipping max cap (it wont cost over this amount of money) or something would be really helpful. Not knowing the shipping is really really not nice, for a person on a budget.

And I get people annoyed over the free US shipping. The difference between "sure, we'll cover that" and "we won't cover anything, in fact we won't even tell you the cost!" is pretty big! And it feels weird given free shipping on the online store :/ I'm pledging anyways, so meh :) (A special "box of div. minis that fit into the package anyways" would be brilliant, tho! :D)

Saw it in the comments: PDF of the Warlord book stretch goal! Me wants!

[AZBarbarian]

Zero interest in any .pdf stretch goals.

[Dan Goodchild]

With regards to shipping:

I don't think the whole "if you don't like it, don't participate" angle is as helpful to the discussion as one might hope.

Regardless of the reality of the situation, there is a perception of inequality that needs to be addressed. The reason that it needs to be addressed is that it goes beyond this Kickstarter.

 

No matter how rational, reasonable or logical we like to think we are, human beings are emotional creatures and we make decisions based on how we feel as often (if not more often) as we do on logic and reason.

 

Telling RoW backers "If you don't like it, don't back the project" is dangerous because it might not just cost Reaper a backer for this project, it might cost them a potential repeat customer or worse, it might cost them an existing repeat customer.

 

To put my opinion in perspective, I have a rare (though not unique) perspective on this as I have the ability to easily choose either shipping option. I live right on the Canada-US border (I can see the US from my house) and I rent a USPS P.O. Box in Niagara Falls, NY. As such I have three delivery options open to me:

1. I may choose to have my KS reward shipped directly to me in which case I pay extra shipping + taxes.
2. I may choose to have it shipped to my P.O. Box and pick it up when it arrives in which case I don't pay extra shipping but I do pay taxes.
3. I may choose to have it shipped to my P.O. Box and pick it up after a 48-hour+ visit to the US in which case I wouldn't pay extra shipping or taxes (but would have to pay for a couple of nights at a hotel)

Which option I choose will depend on what I see in Kit's Pledge/Shipping Calculator.

[Shakandara]

And that's the thing that I can definitely understand as a frustration for ROW backers; without having a shipping estimate, it's hard to know how much they can pledge for miniatures without breaking their personal funding limits. Even if they use a guesstimate, it's probably on the "safe" side and means less money being pledged overall.

 

This is really a non-issue that was addressed on Day 1. Reaper has said (repeatedly) that once the picture becomes clearer for just how big the KS will be, that they will be able to provide a more accurate shipping estimate.

 

~v

[Heisler]

I would like to point out again that this is a two way street. I have participated in several kickstarters out of the UK where shipping in the UK was free and shipping to the US was at cost. I have also declined to participate in a couple because the shipping was just to much. So I totally understand the pain but this situation is not unique to Reaper and its becoming more and more common on Kickstarters no matter where they are located.

[galladril]

Kingdom Death - 137 Miniatures
Fractured Dimensions - 57 Miniatures
Castles & Crusades Hanted Highlands - 6 Reaper Miniatures
Dwarven Forge - 549 Pieces
Itar's Workshop - 233 Pieces
Reaper Metal - ~70-100
Unpainted Older Stuff from multiple companies - ~200ish

Talisman Plastic Figures - ~25
Bones II - 151 and Counting....

 

So, ~ 1,450 things to paint.

 

Yeah, I don't have an addiction or anything...

 

So, I didn't get in on the original Bones KS, primarily because I wasn't into Kickstarter at that point, and because I wasn't really even back into painting, so it wasn't even on my radar.

 

I have kicked myself a million times so far because of it, because simply put, it was an amazing deal, and I will not lie about the fact that I am slightly envious of people who pledged for it, so I knew that when Bones 2 happened, I would be in on it.

 

I have gone over every miniature that Vampire level Bones 1 backers recieved, and there was one thing that really stuck out (to me:)

 

It FEELS as if we are getting more monsters, and less "personalities" this time around.

 

This is a great thing to me. I am not in need of more fighters or casters that my gaming group uses for their PC's when we are sitting around the table.

 

As a GM, though, I need much more of a variety of beasties to throw at them, and so far, I am pretty happy with the selection. I hope this trend continues as the KS goes on.

[ub3r_n3rd]

Looks like the KS has hit a bit of a lull today, I'm still excited to see what else we get after the Villains and the Core Set Expansion 1 additions.

 

Any thoughts as to how many backers/how much this will raise by the end of the kickstarter? I'm thinking around $3.2 mil and 16k backers.

[Dan Goodchild]

+1 to Warlord .PDFs!

I'd love to have digital (read: searchable) copies to have on hand when I play.

[Doug Sundseth]

On a metal sculpt, the weight distribution is different - the tail acts as a counterbalance. With Bones being so much lighter, the tail doesn't do the same job as effectively - meaning the majority of the weight on Cinder is on top and forward. While this might not affect balance, it does mean the ankles are, like Deathsleet, a potential weak point.

 

Weight distribution will be the same (assuming that all the parts are cast from the same mix). The problem is that the metal is already unbalanced but the greater rigidity/mass of metals means that if the center of mass is over some part of the feet, the figure will stand up. For Bones, if the legs are thin enough, the higher ratio of bending force in the legs to rigidity will cause a bend that doesn't occur in metals.

 

And I'm a bit worried, too.

 

 

As a CDN backer, I have this weird issue with simultaneously paying for shipping as well as having an ever-expanding line of miniatures. It goes like this:

 

If I increase my pledge for addons, the number of minis I receive increase, which increases the weight and size of the packaging, which increases my shipping fees, which decreases my available funds for addons.

 

It's really circular. It means I have zero incentive to increase my pledge, as I have a budget. Were my funds limitless, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

Now you'd be right in saying the increase in shipping fee for 0.05kg is very small, but lots of small makes big.

 

Shipping is mostly proportional to mass, except in the cases of very low density packages (not the case for bones) or fixed rate shipping that increases in large jumps (USPS fixed rate boxes), which might be an issue here.

 

Otherwise, it's just that each thing you add increases your total costs by a bit more than the listed price.

 

I mean, every time I add another option, I have less money to add more options, too.

 

The kickstarter doesn't say US shipping is included, it doesn't say US shipping is subsidized, it says US shipping is Free.

 

Free means free. While I understand the pain RoW participants feel for shipping costs, it isn't really reasonable to expect free or subsidised shipping to RoW. It simply costs a lot. If RoW got free shipping, it would mean less minis for all.

 

I'm sorry but makes no sense. Reaper is paying someone for shipping, even if it's a long road trip for George the intern who will drop the packages in your chimney, they're still paying for gas or reindeer feed.

 

"Free" means "subsidized". The only question is whether it makes sense for Reaper to increase the shipping and handling subsidy for ROW customers in some way. As I've said before, I'd probably do what Reaper is doing were it my project, but opinions obviously vary.

 

Still boggles my mind that some people complain about the free miniatures.

 

As noted above, "free" isn't free. In this case there's an opportunity cost associated with each new expansion of a pledge. If you get something you didn't want, you didn't get something you did want. It's reasonable to complain about that lost opportunity, though a bit of perspective is warranted. Since it's a package deal, as Buglips noted, Reaper is trying to appeal to the broadest customer base they can without offending people enough that they walk away.

 

I have my own set of "Meh, why would I want that?" figures, but the value proposition is still great and getting better, so any complaint I made (haven't made any, but...) would be informed by that.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Doug Sundseth

[Shakandara]

With regards to shipping:

I don't think the whole "if you don't like it, don't participate" angle is as helpful to the discussion as one might hope.

 

I don't think I've seen that. I have seen (and said), "if it doesn't make sense for you, don't back". That's just good fiscal advice. However, as you have correctly pointed out, many people are hung up on their own perception of what is fair for them. This does not mean they are right, or that it is good from a business perspective.

 

You can't reason with the unreasonable, and catering to them to the detriment of your business helps no one.

 

~v

[ub3r_n3rd]

@ galladril - wow that's a lot of figures to paint! How many have you painted up all told?

 

I also agree that there needs to be more female figures in general for this KS. I have 2 females in my gaming group and they both always play female PC's, so having a bigger variety of PC's for them is always nice for me to be able to paint them up in our various campaigns. More female villains and monsters are also something that I'd like to see upcoming.

[DixonGrfx]

 

I probably have a budget of about 200$ (don't tell my wife!) but am at only 110$ at the moment (probably 22$ more for the giants and the first dragon). Because the rest of the budget will go to shipping even if I am pretty sure I will dodge customs with that amount here in Argentina.

 

So, less money for hitting your stretch goals

My wife's opinion on what I am spending concerns me as well. When she brings up the cost, I am going to just point to one of the many redundant pairs of shoes sitting in her closet.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

 

Let us know how that goes.... and if we don't hear back from you.... well, we can assume how that went down.