Speculation: CAV Bones Kickstarter

[Bonwirn]

So, ReaperBryan posted in his questions thread of the possibility that the next kickstarter would be more focused. If Reapers next kickstarter was CAV focused, what five mechs would you want to see in the first offering? What would you want in the next five or so? My guess is that we would not see a Core Set for $100 that contained a bunch of models, but possibly a $40 base set with 10 models or so.

 

Lets help Reaper pick the models to focus on.

[TaleSpinner]

Would like to see it have a minimally playable task force for each Faction. So four to five models for each faction.

[joshuaslater]

Would like to see it have a minimally playable task force for each Faction. So four to five models for each faction.

I agree with this.

[dispatchdave]

Maybe run it similar to Stonehaven; have each faction as a buy in group and a completionist level.

[TaleSpinner]

Or, the 5 biggest models from each faction. The little guys aren't as expensive in metal, so it would be good to target the big ones first.

[dispatchdave]

I can't wait to see the CAVs in Bones (I mean, at retail, I saw the prototypes at Reapercon). But I'd also like to see some of the planes and vehicles done up in Bones as well.

 

-Dave

[Reaperbryan]

Structuring it for armies is the challenge there - let's assume the initial goal is a faction to have 1 force - keep it small to sit feels achievable.

 

Well, let's say we go Rach. Will Terran players back it for a Rach battleforce? For sake of argument, let's say they do, because they want it to become a reality. So we get 200 backers for a Rach battleforce. We then go, OK, Stretch Goal! Terran Battleforce - add $20!

 

All those Terrans who backed the Rach force for $20 don't need to add a dime. Just change their reward selection....

[Girot]

Structuring it for armies is the challenge there - let's assume the initial goal is a faction to have 1 force - keep it small to sit feels achievable.

 

Well, let's say we go Rach. Will Terran players back it for a Rach battleforce? For sake of argument, let's say they do, because they want it to become a reality. So we get 200 backers for a Rach battleforce. We then go, OK, Stretch Goal! Terran Battleforce - add $20!

 

All those Terrans who backed the Rach force for $20 don't need to add a dime. Just change their reward selection....

 

That is a fair point. I would try to organize them by battlefield role instead. Make the base set a balanced force made up of the "open market" suff then make the stretch goals for aircraft, infantry, tanks, and the various specific types of mechs.

 

Having thouroughly examined the prototypes I would strongly encourge that the "pegs" be made uniform where possible to make weapon swaps, and general customization, easier for novice hobbiests/casual gamers.

 

Lastly, I have a huuuuuge list of gaming add-on ideas for CAV you may be interested in. I got really into the whole CAV thing during the active beta testing and my brain just started vomitting mass quanitites of product ideas. PM me if you would like some details.

[Bonwirn]

Well, since this is a Kickstarter, and I hate to go against the hordes :) , but this is really to (re) launch the game in a more cost effective manor. How does this sound?

 

Welcome to CAV! This kickstarter is to help up convert the "heavy metal' mechs into more customizable and configurable BONES! Starting off, we are going to focus on the Big Boys on the Battlefield (BBoB)! Each faction (Adon, Malervernis, Rach, Ritterlich, Templare and Terran) will be represented with the three anchors from their respective factions. For a small investment of $50, you can have the following 18 models (~$2.75 each). We chose these models as they retail in metal for over $12 a piece. Suggested retail in Bones will be ~$6, so you save over 50% off retail by supporting this Kickstarter.

 

So, you want a stretch goal? So, the medium guys are up next, and there is a slew of them! So, the first 3 from each faction, another 18 models, can be yours for the princely sum of ~$35 (less than $2 a piece!)...

 

Wow! those sold fast! ... so Strech Goal #2 is another group of 2 mediums and 2 smalls for each faction, 24 total figures for ~$40...

 

And so on... Most folks getting into CAV as a NEW PLAYER will not have enough models to let their buddies play. At first, with the core set and one or two expansions, the players will have enough mechs to field a sizable force, even if they "substitute" some of the mediums and larges across the factions.... Hey, we WANT them to learn the game and have fun, RIIIIGHT?

 

I feel this would be a modest KS, probably in the low hundreds of thousands...

 

Key features would be... common mounting systems... Arms are socket A and B for right arm, socket C and D for left arm. Some weapons can be equipped on most mechs, but some weapons qualify for the special mount requirement, as the weapon is more powerful, etc... Each chasis, legs, armaments, electronic countermeasures pack, etc... has a point value. Customize your mech visually as well as game mechanic-wise. Of course, there are "standard" builds, but also upgrades and modifications to be made. With the ruggedness of Bones and how it holds paint, slipping an upainted stud into a socket won't really damage the paint.

 

This way, your sprues are for weapons, legs, chasis, etc, and NOT the entire mech. Bones for RPGs, is to lower the cost per unit. Bones for CAV is to provide modularity and adaptability. Getting is less expensive than metal versions is a BONUS.

 

I could write all day on the various design aspects of this as well as how to implement the ideas (I sit in meetings a LOT).

How many 40K players have only one army? Most players I know field two or three (or a LOT more for the older players!).

 

Also, looking back at the Mechwarrior computer games, you could salvage mechs on the battlefield and use the equipment on your own mechs if it fit. While I am not a proponent of you lost, I salvage all your mechs and they now belong to me, I am in the camp of being able to modify the combat abilities of various mechs instead of having to field "specialist" mechs that may or may not be useful for a given "mission".

 

with regards to Girot's comments, battlefield role is a great idea, similar to my heavies, mediums, etc, but a little more detailed for the big punch, long range indirect fire, direct fire, skirmishers, etc.

[Bonwirn]

Structuring it for armies is the challenge there - let's assume the initial goal is a faction to have 1 force - keep it small to sit feels achievable.

 

Well, let's say we go Rach. Will Terran players back it for a Rach battleforce? For sake of argument, let's say they do, because they want it to become a reality. So we get 200 backers for a Rach battleforce. We then go, OK, Stretch Goal! Terran Battleforce - add $20!

 

All those Terrans who backed the Rach force for $20 don't need to add a dime. Just change their reward selection....

 

I had a lot of time to think about this last night. I guess the first question to answer is this: Are we selling "THE GAME" or are we selling "miniatures"? My first inclination was that we are selling miniatures. However, I believe the focus should be on selling "THE GAME". Why the game and not just the miniatures? That answer is as simple or complex as you want to make it. For Fantasy miniatures, there are lots of games that can be used with just about any miniature. Pathfinder, D&D in its various forms, Traveller, Shadowrun, etc. There are very few relatively simple table top miniature games using mechanized robots. Battletech is on the high end of the scale for complexity. The Mechclix (heroclix variant) put out by WhizKids(?) is more simplified, but still has some game mechanics complexities (overheating, etc.) that I feel that CAV makes easy while still allowing for strategy and tactics to reign in the game.

 

There are a few companies who are taking the RPG market and making boxed games out of them... Would not a starter set in a retail box be the target for this endeavor? Most folks want to play a game with their friends. This KS could provide two factions worth of mechs, infantry, air support, etc. as the starting goal. Which two you pick, well, that is going to be a "tough" decision worthy of more than a die roll. However, once you "sell the game" in the KS, the stretch goals will open up different factions (buy ins) as well as add on to the two core factions (buy ins and freebies). This way, when you choose to add a faction, the buyer won't be able to switch from the two core to just the addons...

 

Also, you have started down the path of providing terrain... injection molded terrain for table top battles can be used for both RPGs and for Mechs... It is all in how the owner decorates them. Granted, the ruined tower would look funny (out of scale) with a mech standing beside it, but hills, plateaus, etc. are easily adapted by changing the scale of the trees.

 

I have tried to not make direct comparisons to current active products or companies, but it is hard not to do so when Mantic has finished its DeadZone KS and fulfillment is immenint. I am not saying to copy their KS, but if you are looking for ideas in box game development using a KS with stretch goals and factions, I believe theirs was one of the better run KSs.

 

Once the molds are made, selling the miniatures will come easily. Getting NEW players interested may require a boxed game with at least two factions with viable forces. with the RAGE system in place, scaling the rules is really easy.

 

I feel this is rambling a bit, but my biggest hurdle for getting friends involved with CAV style games is the initial investment. However, most of them have dropped $80 for Descent Second Edition, Super Dungeon Explore, and Wrath of Ashardalon (sp?)... I believe this could be your final target audience for the boxed game. THEN have additional individual or group pieces available as blisters to bolster the forces.

 

I would like to see the base factions have a different color instead of them all being white. This way, if the folks wanted to play before/during painting the minis, then the colors would help differentiate them on the field of play beforehand.

[Chrome]

I've said it before, any CAV Bones KS needs to start without CAV minis. Push the tanks, gunships, APCs, etc to the 10mm/15mm scifi crowd and you'll get enough supporters to add CAVs in as stretch goals.

 

Plus those vehicles are cheaper to produce and easier to package. Most CAVs ship in 4 pieces: legs, torso, guns on a sprue, and a base. Most vehicles only have 2 pieces: chassis and guns/tracks/wheels on a sprue. Most gunships are 1 piece and then need a stand. So less work for Reaper to package and fewer packaging mistakes = fewer returns.

[Qwyksilver]

No way, no way. Tried it once, doesn't work. You got four guys all fighting over who's gonna be Mr. Black, but they don't know each other, so nobody wants to back down. No way.

[HornedTurtle]

Having a box set starter for each fraction makes more sense to me then a two fraction starter.

 

You could start the kickstarter with two or three fractions; for $50 you can pick one fraction as your reward, $75 for two or $100 for all three.

 

Then the stretch goals are extras to the starter sets, independent figures addons or new fraction starter boxes.

 

Terrain would work well if there are $1 foot in door levels and then terrain addons or a terrain set.

 

The multiple Fraction boxes will allow the goals to be closer together.

 

And definitely include the rules somewhere in the starter boxes.

Edited October 31, 2013 by HornedTurtle

[Nanite]

I've said it before, any CAV Bones KS needs to start without CAV minis. Push the tanks, gunships, APCs, etc to the 10mm/15mm scifi crowd and you'll get enough supporters to add CAVs in as stretch goals.

 

Plus those vehicles are cheaper to produce and easier to package. Most CAVs ship in 4 pieces: legs, torso, guns on a sprue, and a base. Most vehicles only have 2 pieces: chassis and guns/tracks/wheels on a sprue. Most gunships are 1 piece and then need a stand. So less work for Reaper to package and fewer packaging mistakes = fewer returns.

 

Yup. Think of it as a 'stealth' CAV kickstarter.

 

The CAV brand itself is pretty beaten up. Best to just leave it aside, and say 'Here's Bones III, with these awesome 10/15mm minis!" As it goes, then start sneaking the mechs in.

 

Also, no rules, army boxes, or anything like that. Do it just for minis. Thousands of them. ;-)

Edited October 31, 2013 by Nanite

[Chrome]

Also, no rules, army boxes, or anything like that. Do it just for minis. Thousands of them. ;-)

 

 

As a stretch goal I'll throw in the (mostly) completed RAGE Chronicles 2009.