Last Knight Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 It's amazingly irritating that Amazon/Kickstarter don't have to refund their 10% chunk of the fees, instead taking it out of the project creator's 90%. Sort of a giant 'feth you, we got ours' to the creators. =/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnacki the Ghost Finder Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) It really bugs me that Amazon and Kickstarter don't have to give back their 10% when the Credit Card company reverses the charge. I am also surprised at how easy it sounds to get charges reversed. I once got double charged at a restaurant and had to go through a massive process just to get that fixed. Edited November 12, 2013 by Carnacki the Ghost Finder 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarah Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I have no positive words to add to the whole fraud thing. I just cant understand why people do it. For the thrill of getting away with it. There are some sick people out there who see nothing wrong with using the system as it exists. They get excited about being so smart and clever and being able to pull one over on all the rest of us stupid people. These are the same people who see game or security exploits as a personal challenge. If you don't want them hacking your phone, or KS, or website then you should get better security. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatrissaTheEnchantress Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) I'm wondering if this is more than just Kickstarter Fraud and if Credit Card fraud may also be involved. Consider this: A thief steals credit card information. He sets up a Kickstarter Account. Everytime he backs something he specifies a different credit card with Amazon Payments. Eventually, the REAL owner of the credit card realizes that a fraudulent charge has been made and requests that it be reversed. Of course, Kickstarter and the defrauded campaigns have physical and email addresses, so perhaps the person can actually be tracked down if this is the case. ETA: I think I was just ninja'ed in part by Orlando_the_Technicoloured.... Edited November 12, 2013 by MatrissaTheEnchantress 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBluberry Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Matrissa brings up a point I was thinking about... Kickstarter claims they've banned the culprit, but how have they identified him? By his Kickstarter/Amazon account? It's pretty easy to just create a new one. Now if they did it based on his address that would help, but certain demographics move pretty regularly so that would only work for so long. I agree that most credit card companies should be getting suspicious about repeated charge reversals. I've noticed that credit card companies have stepped up their game in terms of fraud detection and prevention, to the point where they're calling me about "suspicious charges" that are actually valid. I'm more than willing to put up with a minor inconvenience in the name of fraud prevention, though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanguad Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Is it weird that people robbing from you feels like they're robbing from me? It's not weird, because they are robbing from you. Remember how Brian said that they have to budget for expected thefts and chargebacks? That's money that Reaper could spend on... lowering prices, new releases, promotional items, etc. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwashock Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Shaka, when the walls fell. Zinda, his face black, his eyes red. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jim Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Would it be OK to call these kinds of thieves a "malfunctioning, inverted penile implant"? Or would that be against board rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperbryan Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Is bootlegging a big issue? We catch one or two people every 3-4 years, so not "big" but eternal vigilance is a must to keep it small. Shaka, when the walls fell. Zinda, his face black, his eyes red. Temba, his arms closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrus Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Isn't there a fairly small window in which to do a chargeback? Some Kickstarter rewards take many moons to get delivered. I would think it would be outside the window. Really sucks for all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperbryan Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Isn't there a fairly small window in which to do a chargeback? Some Kickstarter rewards take many moons to get delivered. I would think it would be outside the window. Really sucks for all involved. usually, but a lot of companies offer tremendous leeway as fraud can be missed for long periods of time. Supposing a canny thief got your credit card info and began to use it for small, simple purchases. If you weren't hawkish about your credit card statements, you could miss a tank of gas here or a latte there for years. Granted, most thieves expect that they have only hours before a missing card is noticed, so they go buy expensive things, which ensures they get noticed, etc. Another thing to consider is that many KS projects fulfill in 3-6 months, and 6 months is typically the "fraud" window for normal charges - so for all but the really big/complex campaigns, it's a safe bet that this kind of fraud by a consumer will go unnoticed for a while. For the majority of consumers, the policy in recent years as identity theft has become more common has been "if the consumer claims fraud give them the benefit of the doubt" and the criminals of the world have learned this - so they now claim fraud on themselves, on purchases they legitimately made. I point you to the ROW backer of KS one who was unhappy with the long ship time and stately flat out that if we didn't ship his reward by a certain time, he would call his company and claim the charge to be fraudulent and get his money back. He knew full well he would always be believed, despite his actions being to my mind morally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrus Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Lol this thread got me so steamed Firefox crashed while reading it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperbryan Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I should point out that short fulfill times usually apply most often to non-games. Books. Food. Music. A book can be 99% written and just seeking funding for printing, which takes weeks, so fulfillment *can* be super fast. An Album can be written and just need a week in the Studio and a few weeks of editing and pressing and be out super fast. All of this makes projects with very short fulfill times, which make fraud much easier. I hate that I'm basically offering tips on how to fraud small project creators... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApesAmongUs Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 You offered a very good tip to avoid being defrauded - don't fulfill too fast. String it out a bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TaleSpinner Posted November 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2013 I should point out that short fulfill times usually apply most often to non-games. Books. Food. Music. A book can be 99% written and just seeking funding for printing, which takes weeks, so fulfillment *can* be super fast. An Album can be written and just need a week in the Studio and a few weeks of editing and pressing and be out super fast. All of this makes projects with very short fulfill times, which make fraud much easier. I hate that I'm basically offering tips on how to fraud small project creators... Perhaps, but you are also helping small project creator be forewarned and understand the very real risks, so that they can protect themselves. Nothing worse than getting ripped off and THEN having someone warn you about it. Best to know what one is getting into. Bryan, you could write a Kickstarters for Dummies book! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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