psyberwolfe1 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I should point out that short fulfill times usually apply most often to non-games. Books. Food. Music. A book can be 99% written and just seeking funding for printing, which takes weeks, so fulfillment *can* be super fast. An Album can be written and just need a week in the Studio and a few weeks of editing and pressing and be out super fast. All of this makes projects with very short fulfill times, which make fraud much easier. I hate that I'm basically offering tips on how to fraud small project creators... Bryan, I used to work in banking, and I'm aware of dozens of finance schemes. No I'll never use them but knowledge of them helped me stop them, and being taken by them after I left the industry. You're really not letting anyone in on ideas that aren't fairly easy to create on their own. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper_the_2nd Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Bryan, you could write a Kickstarters for Dummies book! I'd pledge for a kickstarter for that! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhaze Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The better informed people are, the better they can defend themselves. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I should point out that short fulfill times usually apply most often to non-games. Books. Food. Music. A book can be 99% written and just seeking funding for printing, which takes weeks, so fulfillment *can* be super fast. An Album can be written and just need a week in the Studio and a few weeks of editing and pressing and be out super fast. All of this makes projects with very short fulfill times, which make fraud much easier. I hate that I'm basically offering tips on how to fraud small project creators... Bryan, I used to work in banking, and I'm aware of dozens of finance schemes. No I'll never use them but knowledge of them helped me stop them, and being taken by them after I left the industry. You're really not letting anyone in on ideas that aren't fairly easy to create on their own. I agree with this. The criminals already know how to do the scams. Educating the general public gives them the knowledge to protect themselves better. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sundseth Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 But we're a faceless and evil monolithic corporate power and stealing from us is the little guy getting one over on The Man. There's no face, it's true, and my wallet is currently as empty as if you were stealing (you need to stop making nice things for a price I'm willing to pay, bubba). But there is a hat, and it is a hat of ... hmmm ... justice? Or was that a hat of just us? It's so hard to remember. Anyway, I couldn't steal from the hat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturne Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I've only had one real fraudulent attempt on my credit card which the company spotted and contacted me about immediately. Fortunately it was a very new card when I was young so the limit was very low and the whoever had the details tried to charge more than twice the maximum limit to it. Kind of a giveaway. Plenty of times I've had them block a charge and call me up about suspected fraud whilst I'm trying to complete an international transaction. That seems to have stopped happening on Kickstarter after the first couple of times now. Once it was because the charge was to Luxembourg which they thought was fraud as I had made a UK transaction before it. I pointed out that Amazons payment system goes through Luxembourg. Annoying when it happens but it's better they are quick to both spot odd ones and release ok ones.than not spot any odd behavious at ll. Tangentially related anecdote time - As Bryan mentioned turnaround times on something like an album could be very quick: The last Anamanaguchi album was funded through kickstarter, the pledge levels had gone well past the required amount and they'd completed the digital album before the expected time that they released the digital download of it in an upadte to every backer regardless of whether they'd backed for the full album or... whilst the kickstarter was still running. No idea on how many people backed, downloaded and dropped but they still gained backers and pledges each day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwyksilver Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I routinely get calls from the fraud department of my bank whenever I attend a big conference. When I am cruising the dealer hall and make purchases, it looks like I am dropping large amounts of money across the US and Europe, simultaneously. They always apologize, and I always tell them I'd rather they called me, since it's not an inconvenience. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaosweaver Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Mr Farham, at some time within the 6 week MONTH dispute window disputes the charge - and Amazon, as a responsible creditor, refunds the $1000. To do so, they must withdraw $1000 from the account the creator had the original funds deposited into - an account into which they deposited only $900, if you recall. . Let me fix that for you. My wife sells via Amazon and, yes, they've refunded orders that were 6 months old (where the order was shipped by Amazon, tracked and delivered within 3 days of the order). Oh, and, Amazon's rates for sellers on Amazon is 15% and they keep that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnacki the Ghost Finder Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 It is disappointing to know that there are people who look at any situation and see it as an opportunity to commit a crime, but it is also good to know that there are a lot of people like this in the world. I live in a city where crime is as ubiquitous as wallpaper. Both my wife and I had our credit cards and our debit cards cloned over a short period of time. "Mister Carnacki we're calling because you seem to have filled up an entire diesel engine of gasoline on the other side of the country with your Visa." "Dude there's so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start." Anything not nailed down in this city will vanish in a second. The best strategy is to assume that thieves are everywhere like invisible ninja ghosts, because they effectively are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sae Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I point you to the ROW backer of KS one who was unhappy with the long ship time and stately flat out that if we didn't ship his reward by a certain time, he would call his company and claim the charge to be fraudulent and get his money back. He knew full well he would always be believed, despite his actions being to my mind morally wrong. That statement is really good evidence that the charge was NOT fraudulent when someone pulls that crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhaze Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 That, I would assume, is electronic blackmail... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Mercury Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 they've refunded orders that were 6 months old (where the order was shipped by Amazon, tracked and delivered within 3 days of the order). I was wondering what leverage proof of shipping and/or delivery would give the affected party. I suspect it may be one of those cases that the time and energy it requires to work through the process makes it not worthwhile... Could the vendor file fraud charges against the scammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Knight Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 That, I would assume, is electronic blackmail... Extortion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klarg1 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I should point out that short fulfill times usually apply most often to non-games. Books. Food. Music. A book can be 99% written and just seeking funding for printing, which takes weeks, so fulfillment *can* be super fast. An Album can be written and just need a week in the Studio and a few weeks of editing and pressing and be out super fast. All of this makes projects with very short fulfill times, which make fraud much easier. I hate that I'm basically offering tips on how to fraud small project creators... I hadn't considered how skewed my shipping times have been. I have backed a bunch of Kickstarters, but almost all of them were game-related and had significant manufacturing elements. I think my shortest time to fulfillment was about 5 ot 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaosweaver Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 they've refunded orders that were 6 months old (where the order was shipped by Amazon, tracked and delivered within 3 days of the order). I was wondering what leverage proof of shipping and/or delivery would give the affected party. I suspect it may be one of those cases that the time and energy it requires to work through the process makes it not worthwhile... Could the vendor file fraud charges against the scammer? No. Amazon has a screw the seller policy. Amazon has no motivation to care. The seller loses 100% of the sale (and any shipping), Amazon retains their 15% (plus fees) cut and the customer is now THRILLED to shop at amazon.com because they can abuse the system. Everyone (but the seller) wins. You could probably attempt to make a case at it, however, Amazon has "preferred" sellers who get priority placement (they don't explain HOW you get or how it is lost, but the more you complain, the lower your equal prices listings get - suing Amazon and the buyer is probably a way to become a banned seller). so, essentially, if you want anything for free, buy it from a third party on Amazon and months later refute the charge. Amazon won't fight the charge (since they are the vendor they are the ones who have to fight it, not the seller) - and the policies to battle the chargeback are very slanted to favor the buyer (which, btw, Amazon has internal ratings too, if you get a chargeback it counts significantly against you - doesn't matter if it is fraudulent or they never even attempted to contact you - even if you get it overturned, it STILL counts against you). We essentially have rolled in to our prices the cost of refunds, returns and fraud (~3% to 5%) and pass that along to everyone else. We're actually stopping selling on Amazon after this Christmas season. Every policy they have is extremely hostile towards the sellers and the opportunities that once were aren't anymore. (price hikes, smaller margins and policies that are against smaller sellers) - sucked cause it is my wife's business and she's not really up for much else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.