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kiltedyaksman

[Indiegogo] Barrowmaze Complete & Official Miniatures

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... alright, blunt the second: did you fail to read the question I actually asked, did you fail to compehend it, or did you just try and dodge it?

 

kiltedyaksman, a question about your project:

Do you have enough faith in your partner to agree to offer backers a full refund should you not be able to fulfill miniatures rewards as promised and on time?

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I'm not asking people to take me on faith. Go read reviews of Barrowmaze. The opinion of my fellow gamers will speak for itself.

 

 

No one is raising concerns on you, they are raising concerns about Otherworlds ability to deliver the miniatures within a timely manner. Delivery for their own campaign has been going on for a year now. I received the figure I pledged for in February last year, a lot of people haven't received anything and are understandably frustrated when figures they backed for have been available at retail for several months.

As long as a part of your project is being delivered by Otherworld it's not just your ability to deliver a project that backers are going to be taking into account.

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Please do not mistake me for a business. I am one person with a love for old school fantasy adventure and who likes to paint old school miniatures.

 

 

 

Yeah, if you're taking two hundred bucks out of people's pockets, you're a business. You may be small, you may not plan on doing more than one or two projects, but you're a business. 

 

 

In the interests of keeping the conversation as friendly as possible ... this did make me wonder a bit about crowdfunding and whether or not it is considered business income.  I won't pretend to have done much digging but according to this article the Canadian government seems to consider it business and the income to be taxable as such:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/business/story/1.1959091

 

But it also states that thank you gifts *may* qualify for certain tax deductions.

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We have obviously hit a point of diminishing returns with this thread. That is abundantly clear.

 

I think we can all agree that despite the best intentions, this thread is no longer serving its function. I honestly didn't think I would be made the whipping boy for crowdfunds-gone-wrong but that is exactly what has happened.

 

If, in my efforts to publicize my campaign, I upset anyone then you have a sincere apology. It wasn't my intent.

 

I won't continue to update this thread but will invite you instead to look for updates on the project page.

 

Again, I apologize.

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We are simply talking about two sides of the same coin.

 

I am a creator and writer first, and thank god for that. It is my creative spring that has gotten me this far, so I'll stick by how I do things. Call it what you will.

 

I'm not asking people to take me on faith. Go read reviews of Barrowmaze. The opinion of my fellow gamers will speak for itself.

 

You can choose to believe what you read or not. It's completely up to you.

 

You're taking it personally.

 

It's not personal.

 

Moreover, it's not just the people here with concerns that are taking a risk.  You are also taking a risk.  If you take people's money and OW doesn't deliver, you are responsible for it.  You took the money.  If you are not incorporated, you may personally be responsible for it.

 

Have you done a risk-assessment for worst case scenario if OW fails to deliver and you're on the hook for that portion of the money?  Whether you consider yourself a creator and a writer first, you still have to reckon with hard business realities here.  Whether your previous efforts have been successful or not, each project carries its own risks and challenges.  What's at stake here is that you could find yourself ruined by this if things go badly - so you should be doing everything you can to mitigate your risks. 

 

I'm not trying to sink your project or beat up on you.  I'm trying to get you to see that you have some salient issues to address, issues which would remain a reality for you whether I had said anything or not.  I would very much like to see you succeed.  I have concerns you may not, mostly due to your risky partnership.  These are concerns which you can address and rectify, and you should.  It is in your own personal interest to do this.  That is what makes the crucial difference between successful projects and those that join the long (and growing) list of crowdfund horrors. 

 

Business realities may offend your sensibilities as an artist, and that's fine.  Business realities often offend my sensibilities as an artist, too.  But they are still business realities - monsters to be reckoned with.  You can choose to be personally offended if you want, it doesn't matter to me.  I'm not the one running risks here.  Or you can choose not to take it personally, and deal with things so that your chances of success significantly improve.  I want you to succeed.  Do you want you to succeed?  If that answer is affirmative, then you have to take a hard look at what people have told you here and make absolutely certain that you have done everything to achieve that end result.  Presently I do not think this is the case, and I think you have put far too much of your own personal stakes into the hands of a third party who has proven unreliable.  That terrifies me, and it should terrify you even more. 

 

Because however mean you think I might be by saying this, it's nothing compared to the reality you'll face if things go badly here.  I'm just words on the internet - your project is dealing with real money

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No, if he's not a limited-liability corporation, he WILL be liable for it. If the project funds small, that's not a problem, but if it goes big - really big - then it could be a major problem.

 

Now if - IF - it goes south due to someone other than the project creator - we call this third-party risk around here, but that's informal and may not be perfect application of a technical term - the following will occur:

 

1. You honour all debts. This can be a disaster. Debts in the tens of thousands are very difficult for individuals to settle.

2. Because the debts are unenforcable, you dishonour them. You are finished in the industry. Done. All over.

 

I don't have any money to contribute to this KS, but I have some smokin' hot hellfire and brimstone business experience. Cover your ar$e.

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I think we can all agree that despite the best intentions, this thread is no longer serving its function.

... okay, one more try at being blunt to get you to bloody think.

 

Your  statement rings true as it seems you never actually meant to get into a discussion of the miniatures aspect of the project.

 

If that is not the case, answer my damn question instead of dodging it.

 

If it is the case, ask yourself whether you should've even included miniatures in your project in the first place.

Edited by Arkady

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Well this is down to hours and finally got funded, which makes me happy to see. Still thinking about throwing in for the book, it sounds like a fun adventure and there's a preview of a map that looks fantastic, but I'll be skipping the minis. Will probably try to get some of them at retail (the Barrow Guardians look awesome), but will most likely not be ordering directly from Otherworld again.

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I backed the original one but I couldn't back this one due to the involvement of Otherworld miniatures. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up the material at a later date at a convention or from the creator but while Otherworld STILL doesn't have everything out it's just not going to happen.

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All of the miniatures by Otherworld Miniatures on this project have been completed and were put up in the gallery the other day; I think many of them are really nice. I pledged for the book here, not the minis, but at least it looks as though Otherworld is so far doing a good job.

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/barrowmaze-complete-official-miniatures-by-otherworld/x/1606725#gallery

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