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jdizzy001
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I think the reason for the attack matrices in a separate book was for DMs who play like Abed on Community, where the DM rolls all the dice.

 

I don't think it was ever a popular style, but I have played in a couple campaigns run that way and it can be intense, nerve-wracking and fun. Especially when you have a DM who doesn't even tell you your current hit point total, but just gives you a general description. "You are not gravely wounded, but will need more than a night's sleep to recover." Do I drink the potion of healing, or wait until I really need it? "The Orc strikes you with a solid blow, that will definitely leave a scar." Arrgh! I had 12 hit points, did he do five? Was it more? Can I take another shot?

 

RPGs were in the early days, maybe Gygax wanted to keep the options open for DMs and didn't know which style would be preferred. Personally, I like knowing all the ins and outs and math, but it does remove some of the mystery and excitement. Of course I think it was just too much work for the DM to look after everything, much better to farm dice rolls and hp recording to players.

 

 

Rolls open, we found after much experimentation, is the way to go for excitement.  Including DM rolls.  The exceptions are move silently/hide shadows, encounters, hp, bookkeeping stuff.  But combat?  Front and center.

 

First, everybody knows it's fair.  They see it.  Second, when things are close (and I always like to push it right to the edge) then people know what's at stake before the rolls are made.  I've seen people on the edge of their seats like they've just bet their house on red.   

 

Dm's should never side with their bad guys, but they should certainly play them like they're in it to win it.  If players know this, things can be intense.  Keeping it all out in the open helps eliminate crying when the dice dish out a baddum victory.  Conversely, I once had a rather powerful orc leader being attacked by a bladesinger, and he started off with excellent morale.  And it held steady.  He was invested in the outcome.  Very confident.

 

Unfortunately, he also got stinkfinger rolls.  And the bladesinger got amazing rolls.  This was such an upset, so absolutely earthshaking to his morale, that when the player decided after the final swing to manifest in front of him (like Galadriel getting all scary) the orc's will to live broke so completely that he threw his arms up in the air like Willem Dafoe in Platoon, collapsed to his knees, and died on the spot.  That was one abjectly crushed orc spirit.  He came to the fundamental realization that all of what he could do was irrefutably futile in the face of such semi-divine smiting rage.  He understood that he could never win.  It was a very final epiphany. 

 

Statistically speaking, that orc actually had the edge.  They were about equal, but he maybe had slightly better odds.  And knew it, because he wouldn't be in charge if he wasn't the best there ever was and the best there ever will be.  To find out the absolute opposite at the hands of a worthless elf was simply more than he could process.  What can orcs do against such reckless hate?  All he could do there was die.  He couldn't even touch that elf.  And not because the PC was powerful, just because the force was with her that day.  He rolled all 2's and 1's, she got the 19's and 20's. 

 

Fare thee well, Kroth.  You tried.  Grummsh will let you into his hall. 

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Of course the changes to attack and damage bonuses, limits to stats etc., mean Next will have new and different elements for players of every edition, but I don't think any one edition is ignored. I think every new edition drops or changes aspects of previous editions, so of course fans will be disappointed, I just think this is the first time it's happened to newer 4th players, they are experiencing the dismay players have felt when 4th, 3rd and even 2nd came out ("No more double specialization? No more Barbarians? Where are the Half Orcs? 2nd sucks!".

Hmm have you not played Next for a while?

 

Not that double specialization is part of 4E, but Barbarians & Half-Orcs are in Next. While the HD mechanics have their root inHesling Surges I think it's more accurate to equate Next class features with their 3E counterparts. Next does draw on 4E for things like Cantrips = At-Wills and a few things that function a bit like Encounters, but many of those things are lack the obvious clarity they had in 4E leading some 4E diehards to overlook the relationship.

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Of course the changes to attack and damage bonuses, limits to stats etc., mean Next will have new and different elements for players of every edition, but I don't think any one edition is ignored. I think every new edition drops or changes aspects of previous editions, so of course fans will be disappointed, I just think this is the first time it's happened to newer 4th players, they are experiencing the dismay players have felt when 4th, 3rd and even 2nd came out ("No more double specialization? No more Barbarians? Where are the Half Orcs? 2nd sucks!".

Hmm have you not played Next for a while?

 

Not that double specialization is part of 4E, but Barbarians & Half-Orcs are in Next. While the HD mechanics have their root inHesling Surges I think it's more accurate to equate Next class features with their 3E counterparts. Next does draw on 4E for things like Cantrips = At-Wills and a few things that function a bit like Encounters, but many of those things are lack the obvious clarity they had in 4E leading some 4E diehards to overlook the relationship.

 

LOL....the parenthesized text is referring to 2e, that's why he wrote "2nd sucks".  Also, there is the ability to Mark in the feats that function the way 4e's did.  Skills work the much in the same way as they do in 4e.  Critical hits are done the same way as they were in 4e as opposed to 3e.  Cantrips and Rituals are there from 4e.  The Path system is similar to the subclasses from the PH's from 4e.  The Fighter gets Second Wind, an obvious nod to 4th, as well as their Combat Maneuvers tend to act like powers.  You can point to many other similarities to older editions too.  To me it isn't just '3E counterparts', it's a menagerie of a bunch of stuff.  And it isn't even fully written so there could be tons more in there that we don't know about.  One thing I'm sad to see gone though, is the robustness of the monsters and their abilities from 4e.  But c'est la vie.

Edited by Mr Melons
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I became a DM mostly because I roll like doodooo alllll the time, so when I actually hit something the players clap and cheer.

 

 

The DM that ran the encounter I played with the wife last week, holy crap I've never wanted to punt someone so badly in my life.  Dude rolled over 15 every single roll.  My Two-handed Great Weapon Fighter was given "tanking" duties because the other two Fighters in our group had no clue what that meant.  I took hit after hit after hit.  I went unconscious 3 times in one encounter....(I burned through all of our stash of healing pots that one encounter).  Then, of course, our druid goes "oh that's right....I have healing spells....".  Anyways, it took us having to give the DM's dice to my wife to soil with her "stinkfinger die rolling", as Buglips would say.  Only then did he actually start missing.

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In the game that I played last Saturday the DM went to extremes.  He either rolled Crits or 1s.  The group of drow assassins must have droped their weapons a half dozen times during that battle.  Which was fortuneate for us as the Crits were always confirmed and hit points were rapidly depleted. It's a bad thing when my Cleric/Wizard has the most hitpoints of the party and has to draw aggro for the melee types.

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I <3 D&D Next. It has the simplicity of the game that I loved in the 70s and 80s with the nuances and complexity of 4th. As a father of a 5 year old and a 6 month old I have neither the time nor inclination to spend more time on D&D than I do on painting figures. D&D Next is great. Would I like a few more options than the last round of playtest materials? Sure, but the fact It takes me exactly 30 minutes to build a character is awesome. Combats are quicker. The advantage disadvantage mechanic is boss. There is so much I love about this I would be typing an essay were I to continue.

 

Currently I would like to see certain combat mechanics make their way back. Bull Rush is missing as far as we can tell and that is one that has a lot of utility especially from a Roll Playing Combat perspective. (We made something up to fix this.) My big hope is that all the Rule Books are available for every digital format. (A tablet character sheet would also be great.) Since the materials were only available in digital format I've been retrained and I love that my table isn't polluted with books that are constantly being shuffled around. 

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I <3 D&D Next. It has the simplicity of the game that I loved in the 70s and 80s with the nuances and complexity of 4th. As a father of a 5 year old and a 6 month old I have neither the time nor inclination to spend more time on D&D than I do on painting figures. D&D Next is great. Would I like a few more options than the last round of playtest materials? Sure, but the fact It takes me exactly 30 minutes to build a character is awesome. Combats are quicker. The advantage disadvantage mechanic is boss. There is so much I love about this I would be typing an essay were I to continue.

 

Currently I would like to see certain combat mechanics make their way back. Bull Rush is missing as far as we can tell and that is one that has a lot of utility especially from a Roll Playing Combat perspective. (We made something up to fix this.) My big hope is that all the Rule Books are available for every digital format. (A tablet character sheet would also be great.) Since the materials were only available in digital format I've been retrained and I love that my table isn't polluted with books that are constantly being shuffled around. 

 

 

You my friend...are about to have you're mind blown! If you go to page 2 of the "Feats" section of your pdf, you'll find a feat called 'Charger'.  It basically states that when you charge, you can forgo attacking.  If you do, then you get a +5 to your opposed strength check against the target.  If you win, you can move him up to 10 feet and you can move with him if you choose to.

 

You're welcome.

Edited by Mr Melons
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Anyways, it took us having to give the DM's dice to my wife to soil with her "stinkfinger die rolling", as Buglips would say.  Only then did he actually start missing.

 

 

Oi, I'm telling you its because i was rolling the dice with the wrong hand! I started actually doing some damage when i rolled with my right hand.

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Anyways, it took us having to give the DM's dice to my wife to soil with her "stinkfinger die rolling", as Buglips would say.  Only then did he actually start missing.

 

 

Oi, I'm telling you its because i was rolling the dice with the wrong hand! I started actually doing some damage when i rolled with my right hand.

 

You mean the freebie attack the DM gave you?...

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You my friend...are about to have you're mind blown! If you go to page 2 of the "Feats" section of your pdf, you'll find a feat called 'Charger'.  It basically states that when you charge, you can forgo attacking.  If you do, then you get a +5 to your opposed strength check against the target.  If you win, you can move him up to 10 feet and you can move with him if you choose to.

 

You're welcome.

 

 

We saw that but what we couldn't find was the untrained/lack of feat use.  It makes sense that someone could do this without the feat but what are the effects? Are there penalties or disadvantages without a feat? If so what are they? No worries we punted and it all worked out.

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Obviously no +5 and it wouldn't be one action to do it basically...a grapple to restrain, next round a push in my opinion. It makes sense considering that it isn't exactly an untrained active response to a situation. Maybe instinctual if you were pinned in a grapple to a wall but still...not an "everyone knows how to do this" kinda thing.

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