Delayed TableTop Season 3 - IGG

[Talae]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tabletop-season-3-with-wil-wheaton

 

 

The $1m mark will enable them to do an RPG version of the show as well!

[estrus]

Shame this is on Indienogo.

[Talae]

That is the only thing preventing me from already having a pledge in...

[Ellusionist]

Could you tell me why Indiegogo is bad? I haven't done much on their site but I would love to support Tabletop.

[Talae]

I wouldn't say bad. It just isn't as mainstreamed and marketed. They also take funds immediately, as opposed to Kickstarter that takes funds at the end of the project. The final reason is that I don't have an account there at this point and would have to make one. In the end, these are very minor reasons and I will likely end up backing at a small level.

[Ellusionist]

Ok, thanks. I'm thinking I might back around the 30 to 50 range. 

[KevinR]

I would say bad. Flexible Funding campaigns are at least misleading, and I'd be tempted to say outright fraudulent. For many projects, there is a minimum level of funding required before anything approximating that promised can be produced, which means that the first backers are running a significant risk of losing their entire contribution. Add to that the horrible complexity of changing a pledge even on a legitimate project, and I will not support an IndieGoGo project that intends to produce anything.

 

With respect to TableTop: if this had been a Kickstarter project, I would have been on it within minutes at at least that $1000 level. As an IGG Flexibe Funding campaign: no.

[sigmaone]

Given that it's Geek & Sundry, I'm happy supporting them. Flexible funding or no. They've already earned few bucks from me, as far as I'm concerned, and I really want to support their projects. They've done as much for table top gaming as any other group of people I can think of.  

 

Regarding Indiegogo; google "healbe"  and look into the recent issues with indiegogo apparently not seeming to care whether or not the projects are fraudulent. 

[aromaticpose]

Here's another thread about problematic campaigns and Indeigogo:

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/45887-otherworld-indiegogo-campaign/page-13#entry844985

 

I haven't used it mostly because the Flexible Funding campaigns and immediate charges send up warning flags, although I know that well-executed campaigns have been ran on it.

 

TTS3 looks interesting.  Wish them the best.

[estrus]

They take your money right away. That Sexy Amazons project that no one except 4 people backed? Yeah they are out whatever they pledged. You can't just cancel your pledge, you have to ask for a refund and hope it's granted. Changing your pledge around (up or down) is a hassle. I understand  they can make problematic projects simply vanish from the site.

 

All that said... I've successfully backed two projects. I'm just really, really super critical of any projects on there.

[Arkady]

Well, the Indiegogo problem has many layers.

 

1. Flexible funding campaigns

I'm sure these looked like a good idea to someone for some reason at one time. They may have actually been. But if there really was (is) a great reason for allowing these, IGG do a horrible job of communicating it. They do communicated quite clearly that flexible funding means they take a larger cut, though, which looks extremely bad paired with my next point.

 

2. Money doesn't vanish

IGG takes your money immediately. irrespective of the type of campaign, and irrespective of whether the funding goal has even been reached, often weeks and possibly months before the funding period even ends. This money doesn't disappear into thin air, though. It's still somewhere, and somebody could at least get a little interest on it. If nobody does, IGG are idiots; if they do, it does raise questions about their honesty.

 

3. Changing pledges is a hassle

Which is why, if I need to add funds, I ask creators if they'd prefer I do that post-campaign through PayPal. At least that way, a company that runs a low-usability platform, possibly for dishonest reasons, won't get any more money.

 

That aside,

 

I understand  they can make problematic projects simply vanish from the site.

isn't really a particularly good argument. The operator of any website can make stuff vanish from that site, and such may actually be justified in the case of crowdfunding platform (cf. IGG's flexible funding is a fraudster's paradise).

Of course, there was one miniatures campaign where IGG's handling of the situation looked questionable, but from my perspective, that actually raised hopes/fears they're simply idiots rather than truly dishonest.

[Suden]

The main reason for flexible funding is payment options. If I remember correctly, you can only use a credit card for fixed funding, but flexible funding allows paypal as well. Indiegogo doesn't take payment right away on fixed funding projects, but they do for flexible funding projects, which makes sense since the funds will be collected and disbursed regardless of whether the goals are met.

 

Of course for this project, flexible funding also makes sense, because I have no doubt they'd be making a third season whether they raised enough funds here or not. Not that that is likely to be an issue, since they have already raised 60% in a couple days. I do think kickstarter would have been a better option, but maybe Wil wasn't sure how much his project would raise, and decided partial funds would be better than none.

[Arkady]

The main reason for flexible funding is payment options. If I remember correctly, you can only use a credit card for fixed funding, but flexible funding allows paypal as well. Indiegogo doesn't take payment right away on fixed funding projects, but they do for flexible funding projects, 

 

I'm afraid you remember correctly. During Werner Klocke's IGG, the Rolljordan Horned Frogs and Steam Wars 2 campaigns, all of which were fixed funding, Indiegogo took PayPal no issues, and they took the funds immediately.

 

I really do wonder why on Earth did they decided on a flexible funding campaign for TableTop Season 3, btw, being an "it gets made anyways" project. Flexible funding means that if you fail to hit the target, IGG takes a bigger cut. Why even take that risk? Set a lower, fixed-funding goal, say that will only be enough for X episodes (X being less than 15, presumably), make plenty of stretch goals (an extra episode every Y dollars beyond base funding).

[cmorse]

 

The main reason for flexible funding is payment options. If I remember correctly, you can only use a credit card for fixed funding, but flexible funding allows paypal as well. Indiegogo doesn't take payment right away on fixed funding projects, but they do for flexible funding projects, 

 

I'm afraid you remember correctly. During Werner Klocke's IGG, the Rolljordan Horned Frogs and Steam Wars 2 campaigns, all of which were fixed funding, Indiegogo took PayPal no issues, and they took the funds immediately.

 

I really do wonder why on Earth did they decided on a flexible funding campaign for TableTop Season 3, btw, being an "it gets made anyways" project. Flexible funding means that if you fail to hit the target, IGG takes a bigger cut. Why even take that risk? Set a lower, fixed-funding goal, say that will only be enough for X episodes (X being less than 15, presumably), make plenty of stretch goals (an extra episode every Y dollars beyond base funding).

 

 

Asking why they chose flexible funding is like asking why they didn't just use kickstarter. Even if you find out the answer it probably still won't make sense.