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The advantage of Liner, as I see it, is that it's thinner than most paints, and you can't thin your basecoat. Something has to be your first layer of paint, so if you don't mind working from dark to light, it's pretty much ideal. Lots of people prefer to paint over a white basecoat though, and that's when you have to make choices.

 

I prefer dark to light, so this will be the first method I try. Good point.

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I actually found the unthinned Brown Liner to be too dark for me, obfusticating some details that were tucked away in the nooks and crannies of the more detailed minis. I found once I thinned it ever-

I just, for the first time, primed some Bones with Brown Liner, as per buglips' recommendation.   It went very well. The Brown Liner was darker than I expected, more of a very dark warm grey.   I

JUST finished this same process with this exact feedback. Thank you all for the help.

I don't prime my Bones.  I have had good results with straight Reaper Master Paints out of the bottle.  I just use an unthinned base coat first, or if it's a mini I plan to put hard work into, I use Reaper Brown Liner as a "primer" of sorts, unthinned, as to base coat the whole mini (it comes thinned out of the bottle so it doesn't put too much paint on that first coat).

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I primed the two I have painted so far but during the class on how to paint bones Rhonda hammered into my head that I do not need to prime them so I am going to try it without any primer after a really good scrubbing to see how it goes.

 

There is one that I primed with the brown liner but I think I did it too think. Very dark and hard to make out as much detail as I would like.  May go over it with a thin layer of the reaper primer just to lighten it up.

 

If you find brown too dark, maybe try the grey liner.  It ought to be a good compromise to get the durability without the obscuring effect.  Variances in lighting setups, preferences, and so on might make it more difficult to see using brown liner.  It doesn't bother me, but it's been asked a few times if I find it too dark so that tells me for some people it probably is. 

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If it's too dark for you, I'd recommend getting brighter lights in your paint area. It varies for me, but it's certainly not detail-obscuring dark, especially when compared to the semi-translucent bare Bones. I put Brown Liner down when I want to be able to see the details!

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Something I figured I'd better mention, since no one else has:  Some colors of paint will rub off more than others.  Since it's hard to figure out which or when or why, it's just better to not handle works in progress directly too much.  Once they've got a layer of sealer on them the problem seems to be resolved. 

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Just as a note to Slendertroll... My mother is starting to have trouble seeing due to eye trouble from age and her ability to distinguish things that have darker shades on them. It is why I do most of the painting though she taught me how to pain when I was younger, these days she has trouble distinguishing things in darkish colors. So Buglips suggestion of a gray would work best for her though I can do it with the brown.

 

I just wanted to be clear for some people the brown being too dark may be simply due to eyes getting old. She has worsening glaucoma and might be developing cataracts. I paint with bright lights constantly and she has had trouble picking out details on minis with darker shades on them in my VERY brightly lit painting area. Needless to say she hates being unable to pain minis any longer, but has long pounded the basics of miniature painting.

 

I have started priming my bones more to make little details pop that I otherwise lose in the way Bones simply work. I am also looking for a sealer as most of the local stores seem to be sold out currently. I may have to try a GW painted on sealer. It seems to work fairly well for me.

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I do have one I use to see the tiny details on minis as well. Need to upgrade it for myself. I am working on persuading her to use it as it also has a little light to help light things up. She has some trouble with them though as she has to wear trifocals, but I continue to try and help her paint once more. At least she gives me helpful advice including on helping me select the nice tools and telling me how to do the things I have trouble with. I plan to get her to teach me how to dry brush as I struggle with that and she has always done superb job with it to the point I asked her to paint a phoenix for me as I knew she would make it look far better than I would.

 

It is partly I want people to be aware bright dim lights might not be the only problem with dark primers. In some cases it could be other things preventing those from being optimal choices. I recall my mom always telling me to select my primer based on whether I wanted lighter colors or darker colors (She always did thin layers of paint). 

 

P.S. If I can get her painting in time for us to visit Reapercon I will make her enter a mini. I am very confident in her painting skills and know she could match many people on the forums, which is why I am glad she is willing to help me with my skills so frequently.

 

Edited due to using the wrong word in the second paragraph.

Edited by Flamehawke
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Something I figured I'd better mention, since no one else has:  Some colors of paint will rub off more than others.  Since it's hard to figure out which or when or why, it's just better to not handle works in progress directly too much.  Once they've got a layer of sealer on them the problem seems to be resolved. 

 

Are there one or two big culprits I should note, though?

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Walnut Brown MSP is one that gives issues.  That's related to the liner discovery, because I was recommending Walnut and several people reported issues.  I was actually using the liner as a substitute for Walnut because, at the time, I couldn't figure out another use for "all" the brown liner I had and didn't have any MSP walnut - only old pro paint walnut that I was trying to preserve because I had limited supply.

 

After multiple reports of Walnut brown showing poor adhesion, and tests enough to discount it being an anomaly or user error, I suggested brown liner instead.  And it was right after that that I did some durability tests and discovered the full range of magical properties brown liner has.  It's a primer, shader, nigh indestructible basecoat.  It's ridiculously useful stuff (primer use and indestructibility should be shared commonly among all the liners).

 

Since then I've gone from "I'll never get rid of this bottle" to using so much I think people are starting to suspect I'm drinking it. 

 

 

***Note:  paint that gives issues only does so if it is applied as the first basecoat.  If it is over something else, it works perfectly fine.  So you could use, say, grey liner and then use walnut brown and not have any problems. 

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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Something I figured I'd better mention, since no one else has:  Some colors of paint will rub off more than others.  Since it's hard to figure out which or when or why, it's just better to not handle works in progress directly too much.  Once they've got a layer of sealer on them the problem seems to be resolved. 

 

Are there one or two big culprits I should note, though?

 

In terms of paint brands, I haven't found anything that really seems that much worse than others, and I've variously tried MSP, Vallejo Model and Game Color, P3, Andrea Color, Games Workshop and a couple more that may or may not even exist anymore. (And no, buying every color where you like the tone may not be the best of ideas.)

 

Actually, hold on, there is the German Lukas Acrylfarben. I wouldn't use these on unprimed figures; heck, they rub off more easily than any other brand I've ever tried. I still put up with them because their browns are so dull matte they're possibly the best for wood.

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An option to consider for cleaning Bones, especially if you buy in bulk (*cough* Vampire Box *cough*) is an ultrasonic cleaner.  I picked up a cheap consumer grade one locally and it basically means when I start painting for the day I throw the figures I'm painting into the cleaner, turn on the magic buzzer, and complete the rest of my setup while they're magically cleaned for me.

 

As far as brown liner is concerned:  it's robust as hell and works well.  However, it also makes the figures dark and I prefer working light to dark.  So I've taken to lining transition points with the liner, and then doing base coats with the RMS 'Clear' base colors before starting to shade.  It works well for me, and I haven't had any issues with paint rubbing off with any of the clears.  But I haven't scientastically tested that the same way Bugs did with the liners, so take it with a huge pinch of sodium chloride.

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An option to consider for cleaning Bones, especially if you buy in bulk (*cough* Vampire Box *cough*) is an ultrasonic cleaner.  I picked up a cheap consumer grade one locally and it basically means when I start painting for the day I throw the figures I'm painting into the cleaner, turn on the magic buzzer, and complete the rest of my setup while they're magically cleaned for me.

 

What kind of solution do you use in the ultrasonic cleaner? Just water? Water + soap? Another kind of cleaner?

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An option to consider for cleaning Bones, especially if you buy in bulk (*cough* Vampire Box *cough*) is an ultrasonic cleaner.  I picked up a cheap consumer grade one locally and it basically means when I start painting for the day I throw the figures I'm painting into the cleaner, turn on the magic buzzer, and complete the rest of my setup while they're magically cleaned for me.

 

What kind of solution do you use in the ultrasonic cleaner? Just water? Water + soap? Another kind of cleaner?

 

 

  Water + a drop of dish soap.  One of these days I'm going to try stripping paint using it and Simple Green.

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      I wanted to perform a similar test with the other surface preparation products I tried. First I painted on an additional coat or two of paint. Then I placed the figures loose in a plastic box with some other Bones, a wooden, MDF and plastic base, and a metal figure. After wrapping the box in a towel secured with rubber bands, I put it in my dryer on the air setting for 10 minutes or so. The green painted areas on each figure are those that were painted over the primer alternatives. The brown painted areas are Master Series Paint directly on the Bones surface. (These were part of tests for methods to remove mould lines.) The brown areas on each exhibit very little damage. Some have none, some have a few small chips or scrapes. (However it should be noted the brown area of this sculpt has far fewer surface protrusions than where the green was painted.)
       

       
      From left to right: Reaper Master Series Brush-On Primer White; Reaper Master Series Brush-On Sealer; Golden Airbrush Medium; Liquitex Matte Medium.
       
      Three of the four show pretty similar levels of damage. The figure painted with Brush-On Sealer as a primer displays the most paint damage of all figures tested in this series.
       

       
      From left to right: Liquitex Glazing Medium; Folk Art Glass & Tile Medium; Delta Ceramcoat All-Purpose Sealer.
       
      Damage levels are pretty similar to the better performers above. The Folk Art Glass & Tile Medium and Liquitex Glazing Medium performed the best of the seven products tested. (The Folk Art Glass & Tile Medium performed better in terms of acting as a primer, and is inexpensive, so would be my recommendation between those two.)
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