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Moving onto Kronk's New Groove. I have never seen it.

 

 

actually, neither have I, but Kronk is awesome. Even if it only rates on the same basic level as 'Emperors New School' it's probably worth the watching 

Disney straight to video sequels tend to not be very good. ::(:

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It occured to me yesterday while painting kobolds that in over 20 years of playing D&D I have never once played the cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game.  There's always got to be somebody who makes an evil character or an "evil light" character (chaotic psycho) to cause trouble and ruin the funtimes.

 

It then also occured to me that I have lost most of my 3-dimensional well-thought well-played characters to these dollar store cookie cutter throwaways. 

 

I play characters of many alignments, but still manage to make them team players.  I look at what other people make and try to make something that, while it may not share their philosophies, can at least get along well enough to get things done and not cause interparty fighting.

 

Is this really so freakin difficult for everybody else?

 

So I have decided, by virtue of 20 years of bringing my best to the game, and by virtue of the disproportionate expenditure of time, effort, and money to make things fun for everybody that the time has come to impose a non-negotiable basic demand:

 

If you want me in the game, the game must be played as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game.  Not selfish idiot who doesn't care game.  Not "but I can play whatever I want to!"  No.  You cannot.  You must consider the rest of the people at the table in your choice.

 

I consider this an eminently reasonable demand for access to my play skills and many thousands of dollars worth of peripherals.  And also the minifridge filled with several hundred dollars worth of free refreshments.

 

Therefore, the next additional instance of funtime ruination or a quality character being destroyed by bullstuff and I am retiring from RPGs.  Twenty years of this crap I've endured, and my tolerance level has been exceeded.  If people cannot muster enough respect and dignity to play half-decent, I will no longer waste my time. 

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That has ever been a problem. I wish you the best of luck in finding a like minded group.

 

Doesn't exist.  I have finally learned this now. 

 

I've also noticed that most of these problem characters issue from freeloader players who never buy anything, and most of the people who pay for everything are the ones being considerate and cooperative.  Maybe it's a factor of investment.

 

If I ever try to get a group together again, I'm going to charge admission.  See if that works.  :upside:

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It occured to me yesterday while painting kobolds that in over 20 years of playing D&D I have never once played the cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game.  There's always got to be somebody who makes an evil character or an "evil light" character (chaotic psycho) to cause trouble and ruin the funtimes.

 

It then also occured to me that I have lost most of my 3-dimensional well-thought well-played characters to these dollar store cookie cutter throwaways. 

 

I play characters of many alignments, but still manage to make them team players.  I look at what other people make and try to make something that, while it may not share their philosophies, can at least get along well enough to get things done and not cause interparty fighting.

 

Is this really so freakin difficult for everybody else?

 

So I have decided, by virtue of 20 years of bringing my best to the game, and by virtue of the disproportionate expenditure of time, effort, and money to make things fun for everybody that the time has come to impose a non-negotiable basic demand:

 

If you want me in the game, the game must be played as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game.  Not selfish idiot who doesn't care game.  Not "but I can play whatever I want to!"  No.  You cannot.  You must consider the rest of the people at the table in your choice.

 

I consider this an eminently reasonable demand for access to my play skills and many thousands of dollars worth of peripherals.  And also the minifridge filled with several hundred dollars worth of free refreshments.

 

Therefore, the next additional instance of funtime ruination or a quality character being destroyed by bullstuff and I am retiring from RPGs.  Twenty years of this crap I've endured, and my tolerance level has been exceeded.  If people cannot muster enough respect and dignity to play half-decent, I will no longer waste my time. 

 

I require that for all the players who play in my campaigns. And if a character seriously crosses that line, he becomes an NPC. It's my job to mess with the PCs; I don't really need any help. And it's not fun for any player but the one deviating from the social contract anyway.

 

I don't have a problem with people wanting to play fundamentally selfish or evil characters, but I won't run the game.

 

As to whether you should quit if it happens? Only you can determine what's fun. I've stopped many different gaming activities because they stopped being fun. But I'd recommend that you consider firing the player that does anything like that rather than quitting. If it's your game, "That didn't happen. And (player), you're no longer welcome to play in my game." If the game is in your house, "I'm sorry, but you're no longer welcome in my house for gaming." If not, "Hey let me know if you start a game without (player). I like gaming with the rest of you."

 

Bad gaming is not better than no gaming.

 

And good luck.

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I should note that this is not, as yet, a current problem.  But I can see one brewing. 

 

Here's how it will go:

 

I have Lawful Good gnome.

 

Chaotic Neutral fighter will do something evil that compels my intervention.

 

I will attempt to subdue and sort things out.

 

Chaotic Neutral fighter will go psycho.

 

Fight ensues, somebody dies.  Odds are good it will be me. 

 

IF the above happens, which I presently suspect is at least 50% likely, I'm announcing my retirement from this crap and kicking everybody out of my house with the admonition to never again invite me to play D&D, Pathfinder, Star Wars, Shadowrun, Robotech, Call of C'thulhu, or whatever else there is. 

 

 

Said CN fighter is so throwaway his name is literally "Just Some Guy".   (I would have at least called him Janeric, Fighter) 

 

 

ETA:  alternatively, depending on my level of outrage, I may instead opt to just say I refuse to be party to this crap again at the beginning of the above scenario, I will outline the expected highly likely end of the scenario, and that I refuse to play out yet another instance of interparty funtime-ruining garbage. 

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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That is part of the reason I love my group, and wish we could get together and play more, we play as a team, and there are no freeloaders. My brother is the closest, and only because we all know he's broke, but what he doesn't give in money he gives in time. One of our players has cerebral palsy, and much difficulty getting around, made the worse by the fact her husband doesn't drive,so when they need to go somewhere, he's first on scene. then there is me, who has moved all but one of our game group, some of them more than once. I hate helping people move, but being neutral good, even with my chaotic tendencies, I'm still in. I hear people talk about having crappy gaming experiences and my brain just can not comprehend the idea.

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Even my chaotic neutral doomguard managed to be a team player, and she was literally devoted to the eventual undoing of everything.  Never once caused an interparty conflict.  In fact, the only character who didn't get along with her was my alternate character Buglips, Cleric of Good.  Because he saw through to what she really represented. 

 

*In this particular instance we tried a rotating DM system in one campaign, which worked pretty well, and allowed people to have a pool of characters.  So replacements if somebody died, or varying party make-ups.  On occassion, multiple characters of one player would meet and interact but never adventure together. 

 

Quite probably Buglips and the Doomguard would have come to conflict, but then I'd be fighting against myself.  Also, it was fun for me to switch between the two and have each character trying to undo the plans of my other character. 

 

The doomguard technically won, because Buglips was vaporized by an exploding cookie-cutter wizard.  The campaign ended, but the Doomguard still lived.  Without Buglips to stop her, inevitably the final outcome of her plans would be realized.

 

And, since the campaign world ceased to exist, it all adds up even. 

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That's a large part of why I ban intraparty combat. It's never actually fun. If a player says, "but this is what my character would do!" I just tell them that either their character should find it in their hearts to choose a different course of action, or their character will be out of the group (why would they pal around with a jerk who tries to skewer them at the slightest provocation anyway?), or, if they don't find either of those options agreeable, they're free to find another group, and they're welcome to join us when we play a competitive game.

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I have to agree that it's not impossible to find a good group, but perhaps not easy.  We play buglips-style, with lots of backstory, but the players are a carefully curated group.  It takes effort, but it is so very worth it. 

 

We're also training the next generation.  Kids understand how to play nice better than adults, sometimes.

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The last time I played an RPG with what I would consider a like minded group was back in the mid nineties. Since then I've tried a handful of times to engage with others but I could quickly tell I was not a good fit for the group or there were people in it that I simply did not care to spend my time with.

 

The result. I am now a collecter of minis rather than a player of games with minis.

Will I ever go back to what I was? I don't know. I sometimes think I would like to, certainly when I browse through my collection of RPG material I find I miss playing/DMing, but I don't believe I still have the willingness to search for players who will invest themselves in the social aspects of the game and help to ensure the enjoyment of all involved.

 

It requires an unselfish person willing to give of himself for the benefit of others.

Too many players are of the selfish sort, who believe that the game is there purely as a source for their own chaotic amusement and act without a care to the others involved.

 

On reflection. I think buglips is now where I was at several years ago.

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Lack of a goal is probably a lot of the problem, too.   To go back to my Doomguard, I did all kinds of things neither devoted to entropy nor even chaotic neutral.  I helped restore things, I followed rules, I bit my tongue and endured insults and philosophically distasteful things.  I didn't like it, but I knew I had to do it.  Because it was all on the way to my goal, these people would help me achieve my goal, and the goal mattered more.  Easy.

 

That my end goal was to unleash a destructive wave of worldending chaos wasn't something they needed to know.  And, in the interests of the overall game, this goal was not something I could achieve anyway.  I had that stated "in my contract".  I would work towards it, I would try to make it happen, but the DM was required to come up with a twist ending result so what I planned was not what really happened.

 

This could have been acceptably produced as, for example, this:

 

 I find the legendary item of annihilation, but it only annihilates me.  Since it annihilated me to absolute nothing, it did indeed "destroy all I know" and, in a peculiar way, served as the highest reward I could possibly want.  I became one with ultimate entropy.  This was, in fact, the outcome - which only I knew (I wrote it down on a secret piece of paper).

 

This would also have allowed two separate groups (Buglips group and Doomguard group) to work against each other in a tense hotseat final outcome.  Everybody would believe the end was coming, and the party make-up would have skewed so certain party members would ally with the DG and others with Buglips.  Each on separate paths to the same goal, and a final battle where people fought their alternate characters.  Doomguard gets to the item, open piece of paper to see result. 

 

That could have been awesome.

 

Instead, the final outcome of three years of play was:

 

"wild surge!  Erryone is died!"

 

<_<

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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