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Random Challenge: thread two


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When I played 2nd and 3rd ed, we all had at least some of the books. For Pathfinder, currently one player has the books and my wife and I provide minis, another often brings snacks. We do have one kind of free loader, but she doesn't really cause much trouble in the game and will generally go along with what ever everyone else is doing. Although I did have to explain to her how to rob someone the other session. :unsure:

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I can accept the death of my gnome, I just can no longer accept death because somebody else did something stupid and wasteful.  I don't have to worry about wild mages anymore (banned), berzerkers (banned), evil characters (banned), but still the core issue of a "don't care, whatever" character remains.  It aggravates.

 

My gnome is something special.  I have given the DM something beautiful and insisted that he attempt to destroy it.  I want to see what results.  Killing the gnome is easy.  Too easy.  I want him to try to kill her soul.  I do not know if he will succeed or not, unlike my old paladin I haven't made this one unbreakable.  I've given her an impossible dream and a naive personality, and only by going through complete hell can I discover the result.  Whatever it is, it will be interesting.

 

To achieve this end-state, I have suggested liberal use of cursed items.  The gnome is an experiment, to see what can happen.  I even agree that helm of alignment change would be awesome.  That's not an item most players can handle, because given the chance to be evil they'd just go party-killing psycho.  But I could make use of it.  I wouldn't go psycho, I'd be more subtle about my chaotic evilness. 

 

I would, after all, still have my basic personality.  I'd just be a twisted and dark form of it, and it would slowly manifest and build up.  I might take to doing bad things with small woodland animals to vent my cruelty, in secret.  This might then begin a slow escalation, where party members begin to get suspicious that I'm "not right" and start to figure out it's because I'm cursed.

 

I might decide that my "best friend" (elf thief, first PC I encountered and we really are friends) is somebody that I love.  And tell them.  And insist they reciprocate.  Really insist.  And presumably they would not, at which point I'd merrily declare "Well, it doesn't matter.  You're mine and you'll see eventually.  And if not?  Well, if I can't have you then nobody will.  heeheeheeheehee!  Remember what they say - you always hurt the ones you love!"

 

By that point, it should be clear something is up.  And that it's the item.  And I'll try to resist giving it up because, naturally, they're just jealous and only want it for themselves.  They wantsss it!  They wantsss to ssssteal it from us! 

 

Then, mostly out of my mind with psycho rage, there would be interparty conflict.  But I'd be subdued fairly easily (and nonlethally) to be restored and rehabilitated.

 

That's pretty cool story stuff.  It's A Bad Thing That Happened.  Everybody should live through it.  That could be interesting.  But, most times, it just goes straight to the psycho murdering.  Either from the cursed player, or from the party who have suddenly forgot the cursed player's been a stalwart friend for ages. 

 

Why can't I find people who can play at this level?  It's not really that hard!  And it's fun!  Way more fun!

 

 

ETA:  I could really deliver the goods with that scenario, though.  Without ever lifting a finger against my party-mates until they tried to take the item.  And it would be super creepy, because it would manifest as the total opposite of what they know but I'd still speak in my gnome voice.  The conversations alone, the roleplaying experience, would be worth it.  I would ham that up like Shatner on steroids, to the point where people would legitimately feel bad about what was happening to the poor, sweet gnome. 

 

It's the difference between cursed item as an excuse, and cursed item as a roleplaying opportunity

 

The aftermath would also be interesting, as I was overcome with guilt for what I had done.  That's development.  But 99.999999% of the time people would just use it as an excuse to jump straight into PvP. 

 

Such a waste.

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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Moving onto Kronk's New Groove. I have never seen it.

 

 

actually, neither have I, but Kronk is awesome. Even if it only rates on the same basic level as 'Emperors New School' it's probably worth the watching 

Disney straight to video sequels tend to not be very good. ::(:

 

It wasn't as bad as you would think. I have definitely seen worse. I definitely think it felt more like an extended version of the show...and was kind of an overdose of the best character in the first movie.

 

 

That has ever been a problem. I wish you the best of luck in finding a like minded group.

 

Doesn't exist.  I have finally learned this now. 

 

I've also noticed that most of these problem characters issue from freeloader players who never buy anything, and most of the people who pay for everything are the ones being considerate and cooperative.  Maybe it's a factor of investment.

 

If I ever try to get a group together again, I'm going to charge admission.  See if that works.  :upside:

 

When I formed the group that I currently see as my main group, I told them all that I would be taking cash from them. How much and how often was up to them. As the DM, I have tons of minis and terrain. I also try to make snacks and whatnot available. They all liked the idea of chipping in. This practice pretty much stopped when we switched over to mainly board games for a few months. It hasn't started back up again, but the main point still stands: people not invested in the group are unlikely to contribute in a meaningful way. I saw the chipping in as a means to promote them caring...and it worked.

 

I realize that this might not work for everyone, but it worked for me.

 

 

Also, I actually spent time working on minis tonight! I based a few and then did my first conversion!

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When last I left you fine folks, I was enjoying Las Vegas in the first week or so of a three-week TDY.  I'd flown some, I'd done some mission planning, and I was just about ready to hit the weekend, where I could go see some shows and see how far my gambling money could get me.

 

Since then, I was told that our TDY was cancelled so we could take part in an exercise back in Tucson.  I was told that I had about an hour to get packed and checked out of the hotel and return.  As the hotel we were staying at was a little over half an hour away, this was a problem, and so we were told "as close to that as possible."

 

After some rushing around (I was not going to leave my chips uncashed), I got my stuff together, left a bit of cash for the maids for the mess, and got back within an hour and a half or so.  I literally ran to the cage with my chips.  I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the line, but that as actually a paycheck advance line, and the line for chips was all of two people long.  This is rather depressing and it should tell you all you need about the results of gambling addiction.

 

So I am now back home.  Never got to see any shows, but at least I had some fun with the exercise out there, and I didn't have time to lose all of my winnings.  Now I just need to decide what I'm going to spend my $200 $300 in gambling money on.  Also, my cats appear to be trying to snuggle me to death.  I think they missed me.

 

As far as Disney recycling goes, it's definitely not ideal.  Ideally, they would create animation for each scene to suit the story, not have to figure out ways to force in stuff from older movies to save money.  For the most part, Disney recognizes this.  The only times where they did a lot of recycling was when the company was running out of money, and they had to create something and get it out now.  Once they were no longer in such dire straits, they abandoned recycling.  Say what you will about the stories Disney has told over the years, they have almost always been on the cutting edge of animation with their features.

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We used to take turns as to who brought the snacks. As the usual DM I was often left out of the rotation as I supplied the Megamats, minis, and of course the modules and any additional reference books I felt was needed.

Since the others didn't chip in for any of that, not paying for the snacks as often was their way of helping me out with the gaming costs.

 

The guys were each expected to provide their own rulebook(s) and dice as needed. Only occasionally would one or two of the players show up with a mini they had found for their character. The rest would select from my collection.

 

For the most part that worked out pretty well over the years.

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When last I left you fine folks, I was enjoying Las Vegas in the first week or so of a three-week TDY.  I'd flown some, I'd done some mission planning, and I was just about ready to hit the weekend, where I could go see some shows and see how far my gambling money could get me.

 

Since then, I was told that our TDY was cancelled so we could take part in an exercise back in Tucson.  I was told that I had about an hour to get packed and checked out of the hotel and return.  As the hotel we were staying at was a little over half an hour away, this was a problem, and so we were told "as close to that as possible."

 

After some rushing around (I was not going to leave my chips uncashed), I got my stuff together, left a bit of cash for the maids for the mess, and got back within an hour and a half or so.  I literally ran to the cage with my chips.  I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the line, but that as actually a paycheck advance line, and the line for chips was all of two people long.  This is rather depressing and it should tell you all you need about the results of gambling addiction.

 

So I am now back home.  Never got to see any shows, but at least I had some fun with the exercise out there, and I didn't have time to lose all of my winnings.  Now I just need to decide what I'm going to spend my $200 $300 in gambling money on.  Also, my cats appear to be trying to snuggle me to death.  I think they missed me.

 

As far as Disney recycling goes, it's definitely not ideal.  Ideally, they would create animation for each scene to suit the story, not have to figure out ways to force in stuff from older movies to save money.  For the most part, Disney recognizes this.  The only times where they did a lot of recycling was when the company was running out of money, and they had to create something and get it out now.  Once they were no longer in such dire straits, they abandoned recycling.  Say what you will about the stories Disney has told over the years, they have almost always been on the cutting edge of animation with their features.

Sorry to hear your visit was cut short, but glad to hear you still had a good time.

 

About the Disney animation, yeah, most of that when on during some tough times for Disney when things weren't going so well for their theatrical releases or for their parks. They didn't have good leadership at their upper levels and tried to cut back in areas that should not have been cutback.

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It occured to me yesterday while painting kobolds that in over 20 years of playing D&D I have never once played the cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game. There's always got to be somebody who makes an evil character or an "evil light" character (chaotic psycho) to cause trouble and ruin the funtimes.

 

It then also occured to me that I have lost most of my 3-dimensional well-thought well-played characters to these dollar store cookie cutter throwaways.

 

I play characters of many alignments, but still manage to make them team players. I look at what other people make and try to make something that, while it may not share their philosophies, can at least get along well enough to get things done and not cause interparty fighting.

 

Is this really so freakin difficult for everybody else?

 

So I have decided, by virtue of 20 years of bringing my best to the game, and by virtue of the disproportionate expenditure of time, effort, and money to make things fun for everybody that the time has come to impose a non-negotiable basic demand:

 

If you want me in the game, the game must be played as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game. Not selfish idiot who doesn't care game. Not "but I can play whatever I want to!" No. You cannot. You must consider the rest of the people at the table in your choice.

 

I consider this an eminently reasonable demand for access to my play skills and many thousands of dollars worth of peripherals. And also the minifridge filled with several hundred dollars worth of free refreshments.

 

Therefore, the next additional instance of funtime ruination or a quality character being destroyed by bullstuff and I am retiring from RPGs. Twenty years of this crap I've endured, and my tolerance level has been exceeded. If people cannot muster enough respect and dignity to play half-decent, I will no longer waste my time.

Instead of you retiring throw that person out of the game. I think you'll find that going that soon takes care of the problem.

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But it doesn't, because the problem remains.  It's just a new person doing it.  Sometimes even a previously decent player.  One guy brought stuff to the table almost as good as mine (more derivative, not especially original, but decently played) and it still didn't stop him from ruining an entire campaign (and one of my characters) just to make a lame Simpsons joke.

 

That's when I made my tiefling, to get my revenge. 

 

Exploding wizard guy, gone.  Problem remains.

 

Simpsons joke guy, gone.  Problem remains.

 

Huge idiot guy, gone.  Problem remains. 

 

A player's sole sphere of responsibility is to show up and play well.  That is, literally, the entire sum of their duties.

 

Experience has taught me that this level of responsiblity is out of the reach of most.  I don't understand why, but it is. 

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So I take it that these players aren't really friends or people you are close with? How then (I'm curious) do you encounter them and form a gaming group? Via acquaintances or something a bit more impersonal? I ask as the comments about kicking everyone out, or telling them to not invite you again sounds like they are not 'real life' friends for want of a better term. I presume (but am likely wrong to some degree) that actual friends would be more willing to play as a team and in the spirit of things, and if one of them went silly, the group as a whole would be 'pull your head in mate' and that would be the end of it.

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No, they're actually real life friends.  And pretty good people, overall.

 

Just frustrating for me to RPG with.  Might actually be better if they were strangers.  And it's only mega-frustrating because there's lopsided investment in the game and I can't get what I want (and, frankly, feel I deserve) - which is a quality game.  The actual solution is simple enough, I just can't seem to get people to understand that they should do it.  In the absence of this solution, I'd as soon quit gaming altogether. 

 

See, the thing about this and my potential brewing outburst, is that I'm mad as hell.  I have elaborated on these points previously, explained my grievances and preferences, and explained why these things are good.  I have even had agreement on these principles.  What I have not had is actual elimination of the issues. 

 

This ticks me off.  And it ticks me off to an exponential degree once my disproportional investment is factored in.  It feels like I've gone above and beyond to make a quality experience, only to have people take advantage and phone it in.  Thusly, by this point, one more instance will be enough for me to say the hell with it, I'm done and out.  Forever

 

Because by this point, there should be no reason for it to occur again.  It's only a potential issue because, again, there's that one guy who doesn't care enough to show up and play decently.  Always one!  So if it happens again and I flip out into a 20 minute breathless screaming rant and kick Terraclips around the room it's only because it's about damn time I did.  Because, evidently, only an extreme reaction will finally nail the message home in a way that sticks.

 

Or they'll leave and never invite me to another game.

 

Win either way, at this point. 

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It occured to me yesterday while painting kobolds that in over 20 years of playing D&D I have never once played the cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game as a cooperative team-based heroic fantasy adventure game.  ...

 

I'm sorry to hear that. Problem players can be a real nuisance. I hope it's possible to get a smoother game team going.

 

Our group doesn't have problems like that, but I don't know quite how we did it or if our solutions are generally applicable.

 

We more or less met as gamers in college. The games were bigger back then. I was in one that had twelve players, and it wasn't the largest.

 

There were jerky players, jerky GMs even. We had cheaters and game disrupters. Sometimes our GMs were good at dealing with them, but it also helped that as players we were sympathetic to each other's interests and concerns. For most of us our goal was to have fun together.

 

We talked, griped really, to each other about the problem gamers and found workarounds. The player who had some permanently six-up dice which were always flooded with a handful of other d6s got oponents of unknown strength and the GM made all rolls behind a screen. The obnoxious prankster unified the rest of the party into a bloc of firm purpose, helped by the fact that it was only for one summer (and the party shocked the GM later by its merciless response to a bit if that character left behind in the campaign). Player discussion after a superhero game that never got off the ground revealed that at least three players had come up with strong gay characters in the face of an annoyingly homophobic GM.

 

The chief thing seems to be that we were mostly invested in having fun together and worked to make it happen. It wasn't always pretty. Players who ignored GM's hints about alignments and backgrounds sometimes found their characters killed off early. A number objected to forced retirement when they got too strong or transformed into something out of sync with the rest of the party. (I ran into a gamer who thought that "retirement" was a euphemism -- he could not conceive of giving up an overpowered or imbalanced character unless it was kiled off.)

 

Another thing that helped was that, at least for the bunch I drifted towards, exploration was more important than sticking to the plot. Sometimes the game went off into weird directions. The most fun GMs were willing to run with it and the most fun players were willing to see what their characters would do with it within their understanding. Rules were understood to be the purview of the GM, who had final say on whether they were to be bent or not. The GMs did not try to hammer the players into sticking to the plot, and the players did not try to force what they wanted.

 

We have had some brilliant adventures.

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Moving on from my morning gripes about something that hasn't actually happened yet...  *cough*

 

Anyway, I have concluded that long-haired dachshunds are the most byoootiful dogs ever.  I want one.

 

They are, but be advised that dachshunds are also prone to behavioral issues. Or maybe I should say sanity ones. My in-laws had, before I met them, a dachshund who by all reports was lovely and sweet. So they got another one when the first died, who my husband and I referred to as "Psycho Willie," who would basically try to murder anyone who entered their house.

 

Their next dog was a female black lab, very patient and friendly and gentle.

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I suspect the likely outcome will actually be, should an issue occur, that I'll just say I'm not doing this crap again and I refuse to play with somebody who won't invest in the game.  Just don't bother to show up, we'll replace you.  If said issue does not occur, the problem will resolve itself as that player is likely to not play very long anyway. 

 

The danger that I foresee is that they don't care about the game, have made a potentially troublesome character, and may set fire to everything on their way out because they don't have to deal with the aftermath.  I can see this, crystal clear.  And the possibility trips all my rage circuits. 

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I suspect the likely outcome will actually be, should an issue occur, that I'll just say I'm not doing this crap again and I refuse to play with somebody who won't invest in the game. Just don't bother to show up, we'll replace you. If said issue does not occur, the problem will resolve itself as that player is likely to not play very long anyway.

 

The danger that I foresee is that they don't care about the game, have made a potentially troublesome character, and may set fire to everything on their way out because they don't have to deal with the aftermath. I can see this, crystal clear. And the possibility trips all my rage circuits.

 

GMs can put their foot down and not let that happen. They can even wind things back if need be. Players do not control the worlds.

 

These game troubles are reminding me of creepy stalker stuff or bad relationship breakup stuff. Except instead of the creep smashing your grandma's china before he leaves he smashes your virtual, imaginary, in your heads game.

 

Which is a heck of a lot easier to fix, especially with some talking between the friends you are still gaming with.

Edited by Pingo
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